Where do you go to ask for support? | The Coffeehouse

LarryOsterman

Cross posted from my blog:

One of the things I'm currently working on is analyzing our community efforts, so I'd like to turn the blog around and ask:

When you have a technical question about a product, where do you go to look for answers?

Places I know about (in no particular order):

My blog .
Other Microsoft people's blogs .
The MSDN Support forums.
The Microsoft Newsgroups.
Google/Live Search/Yahoo/pick your favorite search engine.
Paid Support.
Mailing lists (wdmauddev is a great example of this)

I'm not just looking for programming questions - even questions like "where do I get a driver for my <whatever> card" or "how do I do <blah>" count.

Any and all answers would be appreciated - I'm just trying to understand the landscape right now.

Btw, for those of you who would propose: "Google" as the generic answer, what happens when the answer isn't on the search engines?

Also, in which forums do you look for answers? I listed a couple above, but there have to be more than just that.

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

A lot of the time I look for answers or ask questions here, if a Google search or the program's documentation doesn't provide an answer.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Usually to forums, and you go to the right one for the right task:

Generic hardware problems: PCHardwareForum
nVidia problems: nZone
PocketPC/Windows Mobile Help: PocketMatrix
Gaming: Gamespy's ForumPlanet
Everything else: Usenet (that great under-utilised tool and dinosaur of the ARPANet era)
For answers in a quick, but not necessarily the most helpful: Something Awful's Serious Hardware / Software Crap board.

Another really useful site I've happened accross was EventID.net - effing godsend! Why isn't Microsoft's support site searchable like this?

Experts-Exchange is good, so long as you patch your cookies so you get the answers without having to sign up, I don't really understand how their business model even works.

I get a lot of "free" information from "subscriber only" websites that make all their information available to Google but not regular users (for which you have to pay), simply change your UA string and you're in. Stupidest. Protection System. Ever.

And blogs are only of any help when they have articles covering my problem. Interestingly enough, the first blog I read regularly was after searching for a solution to a problem (albiet, not a technical one)

harumscarum
out of memory

google
google groups
c9
friends/coworkers in IM

With google and so much user feedback on product sites I rarely have to post anymore.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Google groups is my friend in that case.

AndyC

In a rough order:

support.microsoft.com
Google/Live search
Product team blogs/support sites
Other blogs
Reference books
Usenet groups

Jaz
From the depths of Wales I come

i use irc alot. There is a tonne of great networks to get help from, #windows95 on dalnet, alot of coding channels on freenode.

If microsoft offered a good online real person technical help facility where perhaps you'd pay $1-3 per query that'd be really useful as i find being able to chat over the internet rather than by phone much better. however i suppose you'd have to develop it so that if you need to reboot you can get back to the same agent you were with.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Jaz wrote:
If microsoft offered a good online real person technical help facility where perhaps you'd pay $1-3 per query that'd be really useful as i find being able to chat over the internet rather than by phone much better. however i suppose you'd have to develop it so that if you need to reboot you can get back to the same agent you were with.

Well yeah, isn't phone support like $45 per incident or something equally extortionate?

Email support isn't any cheaper. Methinks consumer law needs to be changed: customers need more than 2 "complimentary" support incidents to last the life of a product. 5 is the absolute minimum, around 7 is more appropriate.

Of course, with an OEM system things get different, to my knowledge Microsoft imposes no minimum standards on OEMs, they can get away with providing no support, or charging more than Microsoft.

Here's a little bit of irony: it's cheaper to buy an OEM Windows XP Professional and a 5-incident pack than it is to buy a retail XP Professional box with 2 incidents. The price difference is less pronounced in the states (you guys get XP Pro almost a third cheaper than us) but it's still cheaper.

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

SlackmasterK wrote:

zian wrote: Dell, I'm talking about you and your grammar-less chat agents

zian wrote: If the fatal error is caught by Microsoft's Error catcher and there is additional help from OAC and the help is relevent, then I follow it's instructions. If there's no improvement, then I follow the steps I wrote earlier.

If we're going to be technical about grammar, you should note that "it's" is a conjunction equivalent to "it is". Would you say "I follow it is instructions"?

I put my quotational punctuation on the outside of quotes unless they're part of the quote, because I believe popular grammar to be incorrect in this matter.

If we're going to be technical about grammar, you should note that "it's" is a contraction, not a conjunction. A conjunction is a word such as "and" or "but" and connects two words, phrases, or clauses.

Haven't you watched Schoolhouse Rock?

SlackmasterK
I write my OWN blogging engines

zian wrote:
Dell, I'm talking about you and your grammar-less chat agents

zian wrote:
If the fatal error is caught by Microsoft's Error catcher and there is additional help from OAC and the help is relevent, then I follow it's instructions. If there's no improvement, then I follow the steps I wrote earlier.

If we're going to be technical about grammar, you should note that "it's" is a contraction equivalent to "it is". Would you say "I follow it is instructions"?

I put my quotational punctuation on the outside of quotes unless they're part of the quote, because I believe popular grammar to be incorrect in this matter.

SlackmasterK
I write my OWN blogging engines

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:
A conjunction is a word such as "and" or "but" and connects two words, phrases, or clauses.

Haven't you watched Schoolhouse Rock?

Touché; I just wanted to be a smartass and apparently failed. Coincidentally, I blogged about Grammatical vs Programatic correctness when deciding where to punctuate quotations (link). Thoughts?

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

SlackmasterK wrote:

CannotResolveSymbol wrote: A conjunction is a word such as "and" or "but" and connects two words, phrases, or clauses.

Haven't you watched Schoolhouse Rock?

Touché; I just wanted to be a smartass and apparently failed. Coincidentally, I blogged about Grammatical vs Programatic correctness when deciding where to punctuate quotations (link). Thoughts?

Language isn't programming-- if there's a punctuation mark inside the quotation mark, putting another punctuation mark outside is redundant.

SlackmasterK
I write my OWN blogging engines

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:

Language isn't programming-- if there's a punctuation mark inside the quotation mark, putting another punctuation mark outside is redundant.

I think of it as being like @"int.parse(DatabaseObject.ToString());".

Raghavendra_Mudugal
This is how it feels when you do not upgrade to the latest technology...

Hi, me lookin at theze komon sites...

answers.yahoo.com
c9
projectw.org
p2p.wrox.com

Smiley

zian
Exploding heads since 1988

The product's help manual
If it's not a Microsoft problem, then I go to step 4
A search on www.microsoft.com
A search engine (http://www.clusty.com)
If it's a hardware issue, I look at the manufacturer's website and forums (if it exists)
I give up and uninstall the product

Looks like a QBasic program. Smiley

Edit: I forgot about the Microsoft Error catcher.

If the fatal error is caught by Microsoft's Error catcher and there is additional help from OAC and the help is relevant, then I follow its instructions. If there's no improvement, then I follow the steps I wrote earlier.

Edit: If it's a hardware problem and the hardware is under warranty, then I bug their support people (and Dell, I'm talking about you and your grammar-less chat agents).

This post has been edited to correct grammar and spelling mistakes.

zian
Exploding heads since 1988

slackmasterk wrote:
If we're going to be technical about grammar, you should note that "it's" is a contraction equivalent to "it is". Would you say "I follow it is instructions"?

I put my quotational punctuation on the outside of quotes unless they're part of the quote, because I believe popular grammar to be incorrect in this matter.

Thanks for catching my grammar mistake.

No, my AP English Literature teacher and I think you're wrong.

By the way, contraction is usually a noun. You should have used contractional. You also missed a misspelling (alliteration intended). Tongue Out

SlackmasterK
I write my OWN blogging engines

zian wrote:
Thanks for catching my grammar mistake.

No, my AP English Literature teacher and I think you're wrong.

By the way, contraction is usually a noun. You should have used contractional. You also missed a misspelling (alliteration intended).

So your teacher and you think "it's" was correct, or you think I'm wrong about the literal string translation?

JohnAskew
9 girl in pink sweater

live.com

zian
Exploding heads since 1988

I was referring to the following:

SlackmasterK wrote:

I put my quotational punctuation on the outside of quotes unless they're part of the quote, because I believe popular grammar to be incorrect in this matter.

SlackmasterK
I write my OWN blogging engines

zian wrote:
I was referring to the following:

SlackmasterK wrote:

I put my quotational punctuation on the outside of quotes unless they're part of the quote, because I believe popular grammar to be incorrect in this matter.

Bah. Quotes around a string are literal, the only exception being escape sequences. There may as well be an '@' there.

WBurggraaf

Copy Paste -> www.google.com.

Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

If it's an MS development question I search in MSDN.

Failing MSDN, or if it's not MS, then I search Google.

Failing Google I try C9 Techoff.

Failing Techoff, I try MSDN Forums.

Failing MSDN Forums, I try lots more Googling with more variation in the search and more generalisation.

Herbie

Angus
.

Well, for problems I can't sort out with Google, or another search; I use several forums (including Channel 9 [several being 2 Tongue Out

]).

Other than that, I can sometimes ask a friend, although I don't have all that many who would be able to answer the questions.

Usually this sorts out the problem because a search can yield helpful results, but I still have a graphics card problem that I cannot track down other than I think it is a heat problem, and I have just dealt with it by doing nothing involving 3D.

Angus Higgins

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

Depends on the question surely. I just had to fire an email off to a services manager at MS because its not a question you will ever see answered externally as us mere mortals don't normally get access to WinPE

j0217995

It depends on the product I'm working on. I do consulting for a living and have found that a lot of products that have forums including MS have terrible search and it is easier to use Google to search these forms instead of going to the forum in general and trying to use the built in search there.

I remember reading at one time that the MSDN forums are going to be powered by live.com's search but as I don't do a lot of developing I don't spend a lot of time on those forums.

I use paid support a lot as a consultant. Thee frustrating part for me is that because of my knowledge in the product I need to talk to a higher level tech then the monkey reading the helpdesk scripts. If I have a problem that I can't solve on a forum or find in google and need to call, its going to be an issue that needs at least a level 2 tech and not the normal person who answers the phone.

It is interesting that a lot of companies use the same 1 or 2 types of forums and they all provide pretty crappy search. I think if someone could develop a forum that had great search and was also open to google or live.com then they could make a killing selling the software