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Comments: 14 | Views: 3602
Badgerguy
Badgerguy
Badgerguy

Microsoft; Please here my tale of woe with Windows Vista, and music bought from the MSN Music Store in the UK.

In short - technical support for MSN Music UK have told me that the music I have bought from the store - a Microsoft branded store - will not run on Windows Vista.  The only solution?  Support have instructed me to crack the DRM - yes, that's right, the recommended solution is for me to take the music to an XP system, burn it to disk, and then rip it back.

Want to know more?  Read on.

Over a period of several years, I've been buying quite a bit of music from MSN Music UK - (not the same as the US store, which is now closed).  This service is provided by OD2 (On Demand Distribution), a LoudEye company, which also offers over 60 music stores in various coutries, mostly in Europe.  Nevertheless - it is a Microsoft branded store, and of course, Microsoft will have some kind of agreement with OD2, and will be taking some of the money.

I've over 150 tracks - a modest collection by some standards I'm sure, but nevertheless - I paid for every one of them legally, using the MSN Music store.

Recently, I had the opportunity to install Windows Vista RTM at home.  I jumped at the chance, and decided to dive in at the deep end, and moved over completely, transferring my files - including my music.

When I got up and running, I tried playing one of my purchased tracks.  Of course, as I was now on a completely different setup of Windows - Windows Media Player (11), needed to refetch the license from the licensing server at OD2.  It popped up with a small web-page dialog, provided by the OD2's systems, asking for my username and password - which I put in.  The page simply reloaded, asking for my details again.  No matter how many times I put my credentials in - the page simply reloads, with no error message.

Before we start re-covering the obvious - yes, it's the right username and password, since it's the same one that I can sucessfully use to log on to the MSN Music Store's main home page, and if I enter incorrect details on purpose, I get an 'invalid username / password' error that I don't see when I enter the correct information.

Of course, I contacted tech support - who replied telling me I need to reset my DRM folder, and gave me instructions on how to do this that seemed to be crafted to an XP system (despite me making it clear I was using Vista with WMP11).

After being taken through various troubleshooting steps, none of which solved the problem (and I followed them carefully, I assure you), I was eventually sent an email telling me that it is in the terms and conditions that the service is incompatible with Windows Vista (I can find nothing of the sort in the terms of service), and that if I want access to my music, I should take the tracks to a PC where the music does play, burn the tracks to CD, and then rip them back - essentially I was told to crack the DRM; which in itself is a violation of the terms of service!

I was pretty shocked at this.  All I'm trying to do is play music in Windows Media Format, on Windows Media Player, on Windows, purchased from a Microsoft branded store, protected using Microsoft's DRM systems - and it doesn't work.

I complained, and expressed my astonishment at their recommendation.  That was almost three weeks ago.  I received an email from escalated support, advising me to carry out a few steps that I'd allready done.  I replied back, but have heard nothing since on any email address I have for them.

Microsoft: do you know how badly the people providing your Music Store in the UK are handling support?  Are you aware of how underprepared they are for a new version of your flagship product?  I doubt it, hence in my frustration, I'm 'going public'.

Please - someone help me!  I'm happy to furnish anyone who needs it screenshots, screenvideos of the problem, and email logs.

In Italy here, with MSN Music.it, but... same problem!!!

I'm very disappointed for same reasons as you.. in addition I have problems with few tracks I still can play (downloaded and payed from  MSN Music): the track plays ok, but when I try to jump, for example, in the middle of it, it gives an error and star over with the next track Sad

And I have 665 tracks bought and paid Sad

An half with the problem You have: OD2 small page with ID and PW request... don't working and showing again and again despite I enter correct datas.

Lot of the other half can't be played because I used all licences... (maybe it's correct, I'm not sure...)

And lots of other tracks can be played but wuth FFW error...

Very unhappy here Sad

Ambrogio Calcaterra
Milano - Italy

PS: sorry for my english
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
OD2 have always been rather useless support wise. Time and time again I had problems with them (and only got them fixed because I knew someone who worked there and went direct).

Mind you at the time I was working for one of their rivals.

However burning the tracks to the CD and reripping is well within their terms, *assuming* the tracks have the rights to be burnt, and OD2 bent over and let a lot of labels remove that.

You may find that the problem is the ActiveX control that WMP needs to load the licenses, and that IE isn't allowing it to be installed, and the info bar is missing.

There is, err, a dodgy way around it should you search around. Except it's hardly something that can be linked to here I'm afraid.
Oh please, please, Blowdart, tell me the dodgy way around it, otherwise I will never be able to spend the credit of 9.50 GBP that I still have with MSN Music.  You can reach me at fccampbell nospace @ nospace lineone.net.
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
It's nearly two years later; you didn't think the hole would be closed by now?
Ah silly me.  Clearly I must resign myself to having lost 9.50 GBP to MSN through no fault of my own.  Oh well I'm sure Bill Gates will find a good use for this extra cash as we approach the festive season.
La Bomba
La Bomba
Boing!
Yes he will donate it to a charity of your choice. Happy festivus.
OK I have capitulated and signed up for Nokia Music Store - http://music.nokia.co.uk.  At least it seems to do what it says on the tin.  So far.  Btw don't worry about the threatened monthly subscription - you can either pay per download or pay a lump sum in advance and then download music to the aggregate value of your downpayment.  Or so it claims.  Happy festivus to both my readers.
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
Won't you end up with the same problem as before? Apparently music from the Nokia store are DRM encumbered, so once their license servers go down you'll lose your music again.

Have you considered the Amazon MP3 store? They've got a great selection, and it's in MP3 format too.
Massif
Massif
aim stupidly high, expect to fail often.

It's worse than that. Nokia Music is done by the same people who did the MSN music store.

And me...

And if that's not reason enough to run for the hills, then I don't know what is.

(Note: We did make it better, honest.)

As soon as I've downloaded a DRM encumbered track, I play it using WMP and record the output using Creative MediaSource Player, which leaves me with an unprotected MP3 file.  Cumbersome and time-consuming but effective, in my experience.

Thanks for the suggestion about Amazon.  I will try them as well.

blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
I use 7digital myself; and only buy MP3s from it.
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
Your strategy won't necessarily work on future OSes where the "PUMA" is enforced and there will be no analogue holes either (i.e. it'll mandate digital speaker systems).

and the problem with your approach is that you're reencoding. Those DRM'd WMAs are often 192kbps, whereas a good MP3 is 256kbps, but encoding a 192kbps WMA as a 256kbps MP3 is going to sound the same as (if not worse than) a 128kbps MP3, which I left behind in 1999.
Blowdart, W3bbo,

I am very grateful to you both for teaching me all this new stuff.  But three questions for you -

1 & 2)  What about all the millions of would-be MSN Music users who haven't had the benefit of your advice?  Who is going to explain to them how they can legitimately download music files which they can then use for legitimate purposes without getting ripped off?

3)  If Microsoft get a commission for every track that anybody downloads from MSN Music, I would have thought they would want to make that downloading process as easy as possible.  At the moment, it is not just difficult, it is impossible.  Why do Microsoft allow that situation to continue?

Listen, you people, I am 58 years old, I am tired and I don't want to waste any time thinking about stuff that I can't understand.  So I will now go and subscribe to Amazon MP3 store and 7digital, make a nice cup of tea and settle down in my armchair by the fire with my cat on my lap.  Have a nice life y'all.
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
1) Uproar, mostly, maybe some will file a class-action, which would result in the license servers being operational for a 'few more years' and maybe granting everyone the right to burn the tracks to CD then rip to MP3 (which again, suffers the reencoding penalty), but then if a person downloaded music from MSN Music I doubt they care particularly for the audio quality.

There was a minor protest when the MSN Music license servers were going to shut down last year, IIRC; apparently they'll keep 'em running for a few more years. I don't have the link at hand though.

2) Incompetence. You'd think MSN Music and iTunes would be cash-cows for Microsoft and Apple, but it's quite the opposite. Apple's profit margins on iTunes are razor thin, I expect Microsoft's are the same. iTunes is a tool for Apple to sell iPods with: "come for the iPod, stay for the iTunes", this is also why iTunes AAC songs are compatible only with the iPod. Apple makes its money from hardware sales, not from any service or software they provide (hence why they don't seem to care that much about warezing OS X on existing Mac hardware, but get Biblical as soon as someone markets a non-Apple OS X box. Likewise MSN Music existed to assist Microsoft's hardware partners in selling their hardware, which Microsoft gains on with their firmware licensing fees; same thing with the Zune store, except the Zune software was written by competent people. I guess management saw that MSN Music wasn't going to end well, but rather than kill it outright they paid it lipservice and dumped their lower-performing guys on it.... or probably outsourced it outright.
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