How many are using Vista in a way like the longhorn concepts? | The Coffeehouse

ddewbofh
And so the world ends. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

I was checking out the old longhorn concepts from 2003 and how they show that explorer was supposed to be used less and less. That you would browse less and work with searching and tagging instead.

What's happened for me is that for the first few months of Vista-testing I used the "old" XP way of accessing files, browsing folders etc. but now after getting used to using the start-menu's search and the included apps for everything I work differently. I've set up a few stored searches for some special cases but apart from that I hardly use the file browser.

I seriously think that within a few months I'll be able to work without any file-browsing at all, instead relying on indexes and searches.

I find that pretty amazing, if you start using Vista "the Vista way" it's really obvious that it's more than XP with a fancy GUI. Anyone else had similar experiences?

A*
What's up homeslice?

In some ways I do... in some ways I don't...

I have a folder structure that I save my files in, but to access the files i use search and the indexed tags. I hope sometime in the near future MS releases a powertoy that puts back the library functionality in like Beta 1 - Dec CTP.

alwaysmc2
It's not stupid; It's advanced!

A* wrote:

In some ways I do... in some ways I don't...

I have a folder structure that I save my files in, but to access the files i use search and the indexed tags. I hope sometime in the near future MS releases a powertoy that puts back the library functionality in like Beta 1 - Dec CTP.

Wasn't the library just a search folder of all indexed locations?

A*
What's up homeslice?

true... but it was instead of the documents, music, etc. folders that are linked to the start menu, and context sensative sidebars replaced the favorite links bar in explorer.

you can create them, but there is know way to create the level of integration they had in Explorer

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

A* wrote:
true... but it was instead of the documents, music, etc. folders that are linked to the start menu, and context sensative sidebars replaced the favorite links bar in explorer.

you can create them, but there is know way to create the level of integration they had in Explorer

The concept there wasn't that intuitive, though. "Where'd my file I just closed go? It shows up in Documents, but I can't find it in the Documents folder!"

A*
What's up homeslice?

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:

A* wrote: true... but it was instead of the documents, music, etc. folders that are linked to the start menu, and context sensative sidebars replaced the favorite links bar in explorer.

you can create them, but there is know way to create the level of integration they had in Explorer

The concept there wasn't that intuitive, though. "Where'd my file I just closed go? It shows up in Documents, but I can't find it in the Documents folder!"

That's why it should be released as a powertoy... something only powerusers would use

Charles
Welcome Change

ddewbofh wrote:

I find that pretty amazing, if you start using Vista "the Vista way" it's really obvious that it's more than XP with a fancy GUI. Anyone else had similar experiences?

Indeed. There are many new user constructs in Vista (that are also programmable, mind you) that truly separate Vista from its predecessors...

How else are you using Vista in the "Vista Way"?

Great thread!
C

ddewbofh
And so the world ends. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Charles wrote:

ddewbofh wrote:
I find that pretty amazing, if you start using Vista "the Vista way" it's really obvious that it's more than XP with a fancy GUI. Anyone else had similar experiences?

Indeed. There are many new user constructs in Vista (that are also programmable, mind you) that truly separate Vista from its predecessors...

How else are you using Vista in the "Vista Way"?

Great thread!
C

Everything just feels better integrated, it's easier to write a document and access extra information without having to open extra applications. Let's say I'm working on a presentation and I need to find a date for an event, I just press winkey and type in the name of the event and enter. Or if I need some info from a mail I got but I can't remember who sent it, when it was sent or the title. I just press winkey and type a few keywords.

The functionality in WDS is similar but nowhere near as fast or streamlined as it is in Vista, to me it's the most valuable new user-centric feature and of course WPF coming in as the top developer feature. Smiley

mstefan
Windows SDK coders do it without a .NET

However, a real problem is that you can't tag all files. I don't know why they didn't implement it for non-Office files using alternate data streams. Being limited to a small subset of file types is less than useful, IMHO.

JChung2006

I just wish Search was available on the desktop, rather than having to open up a window. Maybe a Search gadget would do the trick.

ddewbofh
And so the world ends. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

JChung2006 wrote:
I just wish Search was available on the desktop, rather than having to open up a window. Maybe a Search gadget would do the trick.

When you say "open up a window", do you mean the start-menu or the actual search window? Most of the time I do my "operations" directly on the results in the menu.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

mstefan wrote:
However, a real problem is that you can't tag all files. I don't know why they didn't implement it for non-Office files using alternate data streams. Being limited to a small subset of file types is less than useful, IMHO.

Unfortunately, alternate data streams are lost when you move the file to a non-NTFS system, with no warning or anything. The user experience in that case is very jarring and unexpected...

I am looking at possible options to solve exactly this problem Smiley

jamie

<still back in xp>

apart from speed - there are some ..other... things i miss about vista.

- not highlighting the file extentions when renaming (that was handy)

- the big thumnail zoom. while the only views i use are list and thumbs - ya - i miss big thumbs for finding stuff

- guess what... the search. i never really liked going to a google esque OS - but i did like how search worked - although it did bomb alot

- not waiting for desktop wallpaper changes (fade fade fade -ITS JUST A WALLPAPER! Wink

)

that's about it - with speed still being the main one

mstefan
Windows SDK coders do it without a .NET

PaoloM wrote:
Unfortunately, alternate data streams are lost when you move the file to a non-NTFS system, with no warning or anything. The user experience in that case is very jarring and unexpected...

A suitable punishment for not using NTFS, says I. Cool

cheong

mstefan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:Unfortunately, alternate data streams are lost when you move the file to a non-NTFS system, with no warning or anything. The user experience in that case is very jarring and unexpected...

A suitable punishment for not using NTFS, says I.

Unfortunately, even if both source and destination are using NTFS, if they transfer the file with FTP, or have zipped the file first to decrease it's size, the ADS will still be lost.

Massif
aim stupidly high, expect to fail often.

I'm using saved searches in stacks!

Woo! Hooray for both searches, stacks and all that gubbins.

Are there any other things I could be doing? What Vista goodness am I missing out on?

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

PaoloM wrote:

mstefan wrote:However, a real problem is that you can't tag all files. I don't know why they didn't implement it for non-Office files using alternate data streams. Being limited to a small subset of file types is less than useful, IMHO.

Unfortunately, alternate data streams are lost when you move the file to a non-NTFS system, with no warning or anything. The user experience in that case is very jarring and unexpected...

I am looking at possible options to solve exactly this problem

WinFS? *duck*

Flatliner
With our thoughts we make the world.

PaoloM wrote:

Unfortunately, alternate data streams are lost when you move the file to a non-NTFS system, with no warning or anything. The user experience in that case is very jarring and unexpected...

I am looking at possible options to solve exactly this problem

That was why I think WinFS was such a big part of Longhorn's original vision, allowing the OS to crack open files and put meta data inside them when they left the sanctity of the "Store".

Rossj

blowdart wrote:

WinFS? *duck*

When WinFS was writing metadata to a file, was it non-destructive? Or did it behave like Vista currently does when tagging RAW photos?

Anyone know when a fix for this is likely?

littleguru
<3 Seattle

I'm doing both. I like the favorites part of the new explorer (the top left pane). I love search and I'm using it more and more... Smiley

But I'm still using the explorer. I need to clean from time to time Big Smile

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

ddewbofh wrote:
I was checking out the old longhorn concepts from 2003 and how they show that explorer was supposed to be used less and less. That you would browse less and work with searching and tagging instead.

Amazingly, this was exactly what I told a friend of mine at a party last weekend when he asked me how Vista was 'really different'. The first thing that occurred to me was how I had barely been using the explorer. I use the library in WMP for my music, the picture gallery for my pictures, and search for lots of other stuff. I think I used the start menu -> all programs thing once or twice, but primarily simply type the first four or five letters of whatever application I want to start, if it doesn't already show up in the recent applications list.

Same thing with the control panel. I never even bothered to see how the category view is different from XP, I just type and press enter.

The ironic thing is that the explorer UI is so much better now. Improved sorting, stacking, grouping, filtering, and stuff like checkboxes for multiple file selects are amazingly useful. The explorer is infinitely better than previous versions, but used less and less thanks to Vista's other features.

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

mstefan wrote:

However, a real problem is that you can't tag all files. I don't know why they didn't implement it for non-Office files using alternate data streams. Being limited to a small subset of file types is less than useful, IMHO.

This bugged me too. I was tagging all pictures in my pictures folder, until I came across about 40 or 50 that didn't support tagging, because they were GIFs or some other format that apparently doesn't accept metadata.

I don't think there's really a lot they could've done about it. You could set up a central 'tags' database that stores the tags with a pointer to the file, but then you'd lose the tags as soon as you copy it to another pc, or a USB stick.
I guess I should've just read the rest of the thread first.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Flatliner wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

Unfortunately, alternate data streams are lost when you move the file to a non-NTFS system, with no warning or anything. The user experience in that case is very jarring and unexpected...

I am looking at possible options to solve exactly this problem

That was why I think WinFS was such a big part of Longhorn's original vision, allowing the OS to crack open files and put meta data inside them when they left the sanctity of the "Store".

But that's not going to work unless all file formats supports arbitrary metadata. How do you tag a txt file?

Massif
aim stupidly high, expect to fail often.

PaoloM wrote:

But that's not going to work unless all file formats supports arbitrary metadata. How do you tag a txt file?

Why, by doing: "filename.TAGS.blah.ENDTAGS.txt" of course! Wink

You could just add the extra data into the text file and colour it white, but that would only work with rtf files I suppose. It's a commonly used way of tagging websites though! So it must be sensible! 2,000,000 search portal sites can't be wrong. (*warning, all numbers fictional)

PerfectPhase
"This is not war, this is pest control!" - Dalek to Cyberman

Bas wrote:

I had barely been using the explorer. I use the library in WMP for my music

I used to always access my music via explorer and .m3u playlists. Since I switched to Vista I have finally found myself using the wmp library more and more, though I think a lot of this is down to using media center a lot more to the point that I have had to rigorously go through all my music and ensure the tags valid and have the correct data in them! That is a somewhat tedious ongoing task Smiley