Apple should sell Windows PCs? | The Coffeehouse

Rossj

PaoloM wrote:
yeah, the point I wanted to make... It's entirely possible that the fantastic quarter Apple just had was not completely due to OSX

So Apple aren't selling hardware because of the OS? It is entirely therefore possible that people aren't buying computers because of Windows?

The point I wanted to make ... people only use Windows because it comes by default on PCs Smiley

if they had any taste ...

j/k

Ray6

Hell, yes ... according to ZDnet pundit Adrian Kingsley-Hughes.

I thought it was a bizarre time to float this as an idea, considering Apple's PC sales are still beating the industry average, but he sets out a reasonable set of arguments.

Two years ago, I would have said, 'yes ... great idea' but now, I don't really think it would make any difference.

TimP

They're never going to pre-load Windows on their machines (unless they stop development of OS X at some point, highly unlikely), but with Boot Camp, they've done all the work except for getting a copy of Windows.

GoddersUK
I CAN has cheezburger and you CAN'T has stop me!

Why do people buy apples?

Shiny boxes and OSX

What is OSX's advantage?

Less fudd, doesn't have the problem of having to support the multitude of hardware devices that Windows does.

Selling windows won't add to either of those.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

GoddersUK wrote:
Why do people buy apples?

Shiny boxes and OSX

What is OSX's advantage?

Less fudd, doesn't have the problem of having to support the multitude of hardware devices that Windows does.

Selling windows won't add to either of those.

Er... I am seeing more and more MacBook Pros running Vista. Of course around the company, but I saw some last weekend at a Starbucks and a couple of friends of mine totally unrelated to Microsoft.

I am wondering if it would be possible to find out what's the percentage of Apple hardware running Windows...

Edit: yeah, the point I wanted to make... It's entirely possible that the fantastic quarter Apple just had was not completely due to OSX Smiley

GoddersUK
I CAN has cheezburger and you CAN'T has stop me!

PaoloM wrote:
Er... I am seeing more and more MacBook Pros running Vista. Of course around the company, but I saw some last weekend at a Starbucks and a couple of friends of mine totally unrelated to Microsoft.

I am wondering if it would be possible to find out what's the percentage of Apple hardware running Windows...

Edit: yeah, the point I wanted to make... It's entirely possible that the fantastic quarter Apple just had was not completely due to OSX

Bah, humbug: fashion....

It'll all be gone in a few years - you mark my words.

/grump

brichpmr

I think (anecdotally) that many Mac users who run Windows on their Macs do so primarily to use custom apps that aren't available on OSX, or apps that their company requires. For example, I have to use the Win version of the Cisco VPN client because of the specific firewall config my company invested in with their Cisco concentrator. Other than this, I have no real need to launch Windows....ymmv.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Rossj wrote:

PaoloM wrote: yeah, the point I wanted to make... It's entirely possible that the fantastic quarter Apple just had was not completely due to OSX

So Apple aren't selling hardware because of the OS? It is entirely therefore possible that people aren't buying computers because of Windows?

Unfortunately, and against all my recommendations, Microsoft doesn't build PCs. So it's out of our hands Sad

Think about that: two laptops, two desktops.

One consumer laptop, multimedia oriented, with a big screen, tuner, remote, a smart docking station with proper speakers and a USB hub, designed to be used as a home machine in lieu of the usual desktop.

One business laptop, rugged, light, rock solid perf, easily serviceable.

One gaming/server desktop for home use, high perf, super easy storage and video expansion, to be used as a gaming rig or as a home/sbs server.

One business desktop, very small, very serviceable, almost filling the role of the network computer of yesteryear.

All supported by a single support line, hardware, services and software.

Wouldn't that be nice? Smiley

Rossj wrote:
The point I wanted to make ... people only use Windows because it comes by default on PCs if they had any taste ...

But seriously, I wonder if we have any usage data about the manufacturer of the machine when you authorize a copy of Windows... I don't know if it's even possible to get that info, but it surely would be interesting Smiley

Ray6

PaoloM wrote:

Rossj wrote:

PaoloM wrote: yeah, the point I wanted to make... It's entirely possible that the fantastic quarter Apple just had was not completely due to OSX

So Apple aren't selling hardware because of the OS? It is entirely therefore possible that people aren't buying computers because of Windows?

Unfortunately, and against all my recommendations, Microsoft doesn't build PCs. So it's out of our hands

Think about that: two laptops, two desktops.

One consumer laptop, multimedia oriented, with a big screen, tuner, remote, a smart docking station with proper speakers and a USB hub, designed to be used as a home machine in lieu of the usual desktop.

One business laptop, rugged, light, rock solid perf, easily serviceable.

One gaming/server desktop for home use, high perf, super easy storage and video expansion, to be used as a gaming rig or as a home/sbs server.

One business desktop, very small, very serviceable, almost filling the role of the network computer of yesteryear.

All supported by a single support line, hardware, services and software.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Yes, the OEMs would love you for it .... Smiley

No high end gaming laptop though?

alwaysmc2
It's not stupid; It's advanced!

Rossj wrote:

PaoloM wrote: yeah, the point I wanted to make... It's entirely possible that the fantastic quarter Apple just had was not completely due to OSX

So Apple aren't selling hardware because of the OS? It is entirely therefore possible that people aren't buying computers because of Windows?

The point I wanted to make ... people only use Windows because it comes by default on PCs if they had any taste ...

Well I dunno... Vista is pretty attractive. I mean, I've been using it for so long it's just kinda "meh", but my mom recently got a Vista laptop and it's just like those Best Buy commercials say: now she "loves her PC," or at least enjoys using it.
the hardware isn't half bad-looking either...

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Ray6 wrote:
Yes, the OEMs would love you for it ....

No high end gaming laptop though?

That's where we get the OEM love back Smiley

nightski

Just bought a 2.4 Macbook Pro yesterday! It is an amazing piece of hardware. I've been using it all day today, love it. Now I just have to live with OS X Tiger for a few more days until I can get Boot Camp through Leopard and install Vista Smiley

But Vista will be my primary OS. Simply put, Apple does make extremey attractive hardware. Style does matter, especially with a laptop. This is partly because style affects function in this case. Slim, lightweight, but powerful is a hard combination to find these days =/ I almost held out for the Dell m1530 but decided to just go with the mac.

Ray6

PaoloM wrote:

Ray6 wrote:Yes, the OEMs would love you for it ....

No high end gaming laptop though?

That's where we get the OEM love back

That is very clever .... Big Smile

Ray6

nightski wrote:
Just bought a 2.4 Macbook Pro yesterday! It is an amazing piece of hardware. I've been using it all day today, love it. Now I just have to live with OS X Tiger for a few more days until I can get Boot Camp through Leopard and install Vista But Vista will be my primary OS. Simply put, Apple does make extremey attractive hardware. Style does matter, especially with a laptop. This is partly because style affects function in this case. Slim, lightweight, but powerful is a hard combination to find these days =/ I almost held out for the Dell m1530 but decided to just go with the mac.

... and that is very interesting.

Ray6

nightski wrote:
Just bought a 2.4 Macbook Pro yesterday! It is an amazing piece of hardware. I've been using it all day today, love it. Now I just have to live with OS X Tiger for a few more days until I can get Boot Camp through Leopard and install Vista

You couldn't wait a few weeks for Leopard to be preinstalled? ... Smiley

nightski wrote:

But Vista will be my primary OS. Simply put, Apple does make extremey attractive hardware. Style does matter, especially with a laptop.

Actually, Asus makes the laptop I think. The MacBook Pro is based on their W2P chassis by the looks of it.

nightski wrote:

This is partly because style affects function in this case. Slim, lightweight, but powerful is a hard combination to find these days =/ I almost held out for the Dell m1530 but decided to just go with the mac.

Hmmm ...

Yes, I was looking at the Dell. I'm glad to see that they went with the M1330 styling, rather than the strange, migraine-inducing design scheme they used on the M1730.

Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.

Geeeez, isn't it obvious ????

The Mac is the computer for the Kool kids.

Vista is the OS for the Kool kids. (- for now, Leopard is about getting the cool kids back)

So the Kool kids are gonna want to run both together.

It's all about the latest and greatest and brands !

A good demostration of this is. In the UK the phone to have ... isn't the iPhone! ... It's the Prada phone.

Make a shinny laptop and put a Prada logo on it and see Apples market get eaten into.

Massif
aim stupidly high, expect to fail often.

Sabot wrote:
Make a shinny laptop and put a Prada logo on it and see Apples market get eaten into.

Shinny? Should it have knobbly knees too?

You know what I want? (being a bit of a lunatic) I want a company to make all their laptops so that when you order you can customise them with an image to be printed onto the body.

Which would be so cool, and better than trying to get vinyls which fit, (and cutting them so they don't obscure the fans / grills.

If the technology could be in place so a major manufacturer could do that, then apple would see their one-white-box-fits-all approach being slightly denegrated.

n4cer

I've long thought Apple would do just as well, and likely much better, selling Windows PCs. They're basically a boutique PC vendor, and they could continue to demand a premium price due to their brand and design assets. MS could even partner with them in creating showcase systems. Sun seems to be better off as a Windows OEM rather than the company formerly controlled mostly by hatred of MS.

If MS became a PC vendor (beyond Surface Cool

), I think they could enter the market without upsetting their OEMs by focusing on offering innovative hardware that pushes forward technologies that don't normally get the full attention of/best execution from OEMs, like Tablet PCs, UMPCs, smart displays, and of course, surface computing. MS could take the risk where major OEMs are unwilling. You could say Microsoft could make the verticle horizontal. Push the niche into the mainstream, then maybe even hand some of it off to OEMs after it becomes mainstream.

Build highly integrated (integrated meaning software/hardware -- not necessarily closed, non-upgradable systems - upgradability should be a feature wherever possible [laptop graphics for instance]), well designed, hardware that is an example to the OEMs of how to differentiate, provide the best user experience, and take advantage of new Windows features. The systems would not only be great products for users, but great reference designs for OEMs.

One caveat -- even if MS provided the absolute best Windows systems available, even if everything is simple and integrated, and the technology and experience is great, MS absolutely must back up their offerings with broad TV advertising that shows users what's so special about the products. This is a page everyone in tech can take from Apple (though the ads should run a bit less frequently than theirs so it doesn't get annoying as theirs often are Smiley

)

GoddersUK
I CAN has cheezburger and you CAN'T has stop me!

n4cer wrote:

One caveat -- even if MS provided the absolute best Windows systems available, even if everything is simple and integrated, and the technology and experience is great, MS absolutely must back up their offerings with broad TV advertising that shows users what's so special about the products. This is a page everyone in tech can take from Apple (though the ads should run a bit less frequently than theirs so it doesn't get annoying as theirs often are )

Hi, I'm a Mac.
And I'm a Surface

...

Tongue Out

n4cer

GoddersUK wrote:

Hi, I'm a Mac.
And I'm a Surface

...

lol, maybe something more subdued. Smiley

A series of commercials each showing one task...

Transfering/Organizing photos:
The Mac -- plug in cable, transfer, click around in iPhoto.
Surface -- place camera on Surface, pics spill out, direct manipulation...

Music:
The Mac -- dock iPod, click around in iTunes
Surface -- place Zune on Surface, sync wirelessly, direct manipulation...

Scan/OCR Documents:
The Mac -- connect scanner, install software, scan documents one by one.
Surface -- place multiple sheets of paper on Surface, say "scan documents", scan completes and virtual, searchable copies appear on screen ready for annotation, correction, oh and uh ... direct manipulation Smiley

Games:
The Mac -- *crickets* Tongue Out

j/k
Surface -- show 4 people at a Surface playing Halo: Gaming Evolved (zoom out to show additional Surfaces with other people playing the same game in a big Surface LAN party and on Xbox Live! Cool

)

Of course, I doubt MS would ever do the MvPC thing. They'd just show the scenario as "the old way" using a generic Windows PC vs "the new way" with Surface.

nightski

Sabot wrote:
Geeeez, isn't it obvious ????

The Mac is the computer for the Kool kids.

Vista is the OS for the Kool kids. (- for now, Leopard is about getting the cool kids back)

So the Kool kids are gonna want to run both together.

It's all about the latest and greatest and brands !

A good demostration of this is. In the UK the phone to have ... isn't the iPhone! ... It's the Prada phone.

Make a shinny laptop and put a Prada logo on it and see Apples market get eaten into.

Sorry, but it isn't about the shiny design. Its about -

2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo
2 Gb Ram
160Gb 7200rpm hd
Nvidia 8600M GT Graphics
15.4 LED backlit display
Backlit keyboard
5.4 lbs, 1 inch thick
...

Its about the technology. Find me a PC laptop with these specs for $2000. Yes, I only paid $2000 with a student ADC membership discount (grad student atm).

And Ray6, I couldn't even wait 4 days for Leopard haha Smiley

Its pathetic, I know. But I've been wanting a laptop for about 10 years now and its about time I got one.

Rossj

nightski wrote:
And Ray6, I couldn't even wait 4 days for Leopard haha Its pathetic, I know. But I've been wanting a laptop for about 10 years now and its about time I got one.

If you want it you can get it free ($10 shipping) if you bought a MB or MBP this month.

GoddersUK
I CAN has cheezburger and you CAN'T has stop me!

nightski wrote:

Sorry, but it isn't about the shiny design. Its about -

2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo
2 Gb Ram
160Gb 7200rpm hd
Nvidia 8600M GT Graphics
15.4 LED backlit display
Backlit keyboard
5.4 lbs, 1 inch thick
...

Its about the technology. Find me a PC laptop with these specs for $2000. Yes, I only paid $2000 with a student ADC membership discount (grad student atm).

Working on a $2 to £1 exchange rate:

Try this for size;

You loose .2 GHz on each core and the backlit keyboard but gain some extra stuff (hdd space and some other stuff).

I think you'd be a bit hard pressed to find any non-mac laptop with a backlit keyboard.

ManipUni
Proving QQ for 5 years!

Apple shouldn't sell Windows PCs.

They're getting it right at the moment. Windows is the geek's OS. It runs more apps, is more configurable, and has all the gaming goodness.

OS X is the OS you'd give your mom to use. Less bells and whistles; but easier to understand, and still does all the base things you'd want (e.g. Web Browsing, Office, Mail etc).

Apple are selling hardware to both groups. Your mom can go to Apple.com/uk and order up her laptop; while the geeks can go there too and install XP SP2 from their old laptop on it.

If Apple weren't so expensive and they had comparable or better battery life to someone like Dell then I'd consider using them. But as is you can hit a better price/quality point from other vendors there is no point.

ManipUni
Proving QQ for 5 years!

creditcard wrote:

That's probably the first time I've heard Windows called "the geek OS". Mac OS X may look simple from the outside, until you digg deeper into it's FreeBSD/Darwin core.. it becomes apperent that Mac OS X is UNIX with a pretty face.

But a Mac user wouldn't dig. There is no need. Plus OS X is so polished you have to dig really far to start uncovering unix stuff.

The only unix bits you might hit day to day are user rights type stuff; and the interface makes them fairly easy to understand.