Comment Feed for DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap) (Coffeehouse on Channel 9)

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:54:18 GMT

creditcard wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

creditcard wrote:

evildictaitor wrote:

creditcard wrote: Again, here you go thinking you can make such assertions, especially without any proof.

Oh, happy ignorance.

No, ignorence hurts people. Please stop being ignorent.

The irony is unbearable

I don't think you know what the word "irony" means. It's OK, PaoloM, it's a complex word. It's three syllables.

Ok, I'll read up on that.

In the meanwhile, you may want to hurry back to edit your post AGAIN and fix the other spelling error. Just for completeness' sake, you know...

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

Minh — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:47:53 GMT

This water tastes "irony".

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:36:44 GMT

creditcard wrote:

evildictaitor wrote:

creditcard wrote: Again, here you go thinking you can make such assertions, especially without any proof.

Oh, happy ignorance.

No, ignorence hurts people. Please stop being ignorent.

The irony is unbearable :)

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

evildictaitor — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:09:08 GMT

creditcard wrote:
Again, here you go thinking you can make such assertions, especially without any proof.

Oh, happy ignorance.

creditcard wrote:

Well sorry, evildictaitor, you aren't a dictator, a judge, and you certainly as hell aren't a lawyer.

Hell, even the latter two spend lots and lots of time explaining themselves.

Well, since I can't be bothered arguing with you, I'll just let our esteemed audience decide.

If they have any difficulty they can either consult the DMCA article in question (DMCA 1201(f)), or for those who arn't so keen on legal jargon, they can go to the all knowing source that is Wikipedia and read the Excemptions section on the DMCA article.

Also, just as an aside, do you believe in hell? Since, otherwise your phrase "as certainly as hell" has quite the opposite meaning that you intended.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

ScanIAm — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:51:16 GMT

evildictaitor wrote:

creditcard wrote:
and software such as libdvdcss is permitted under the DMCA, section 1201(f), which authorizes circumvention for purposes of interoperability.

You've either misunderstood the DMCA on this article or you're making this up, because that simply isn't true.

But, but he WANTS it to be true! And if he WANTS it to be true and he closes his eyes and wishes realllllllllly hard...

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

evildictaitor — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:44:28 GMT

creditcard wrote:

and software such as libdvdcss is permitted under the DMCA, section 1201(f), which authorizes circumvention for purposes of interoperability.

You've either misunderstood the DMCA on this article or you're making this up, because that simply isn't true.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:26:37 GMT

Xaero_Vincent wrote:

PaoloM wrote: Does it bypass Macrovision?

I don't believe so.

It just breaks content the scrambling system system used by DVDs. It doesnt work well with Sony's enhanced CSS.

Its a pretty popular library on *nix systems but I use LinDVD, which is the legal way to watch DVDs from Linux in the USA.

I thought so. That means the original reply from creditcard was pointless.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

Xaero_Vincent — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:20:12 GMT

PaoloM wrote:
Does it bypass Macrovision?

I don't believe so.

It just breaks content the scrambling system system used by DVDs. It doesnt work well with Sony's enhanced CSS.

Its a pretty popular library on *nix systems but I use LinDVD, which is the legal way to watch DVDs from Linux in the USA.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:12:48 GMT

creditcard wrote:
Despite being developed by VideoLAN, libdvdcss is actually player agnostic in that it will work with most video players.

Does it bypass Macrovision?

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:03:48 GMT

DigitalDud wrote:

PaoloM wrote:
The protected media path is not used to play DVDs.

Well the error messages I get suggest that DVD playing was disabled because of some OS-level protection. Basically, when I play a DVD it'll make it past the initial copyright screens and then it'll error out with something like this:

"Media Center cannot play this DVD, the DVD may be in use by another application or it is copy protected"

Or similar error messages in other players such as WMP or Media Player Classic. The errors go away if I use the ancient, but official and signed drivers for my video card.

That's Macrovision and it's the same as it was in XP. Not a Vista problem, or, as we say in here, "not a regression" :)

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

AndyC — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:53:42 GMT

DigitalDud wrote:

"MediaCenter cannot play this DVD, the DVD may be in use by another application or it is copy protected"

Yep, that's Macrovision. It's a copy protection used on normal DVD's to stop you recording them to VHS.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

DigitalDud — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:49:38 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

The protected media path is not used to play DVDs.

Well the error messages I get suggest that DVD playing was disabled because of some OS-level protection. Basically, when I play a DVD it'll make it past the initial copyright screens and then it'll error out with something like this:

"Media Center cannot play this DVD, the DVD may be in use by another application or it is copy protected"

Or similar error messages in other players such as WMP or Media Player Classic. The errors go away if I use the ancient, but official and signed drivers for my video card.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

DigitalDud — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:44:13 GMT

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
Whats so buggy about it?

Eh, from experience I've had lots of bad issues with it. From garbled audio and video after seeking to flat out crashes. And its always seemed to have trouble when moving the player between multiple monitors.

Besides I'd perfer to use the built-in video capabilities provided by the OS and my player of choice.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:41:06 GMT

DigitalDud wrote:
Right I'm running 32bit Vista, the protected media path doesn't allow DVD playback with unsigned video drivers. This is different from the total ban on unsigned drivers on 64bit Vista.

The protected media path is not used to play DVDs.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

AndyC — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:40:41 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

Now then, AndyC, what's that about me getting hysterical over conspiracy-theory level DRM in Windows Vista?

'tis Macrovision support, I suspect. I've had the exact same thing happen on XP with drivers that don't have Macrovision support on a laptop with TV out.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

DigitalDud — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:38:33 GMT

Right I'm running 32bit Vista, the protected media path doesn't allow DVD playback with unsigned video drivers. This is different from the total ban on unsigned drivers on 64bit Vista.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

Isshou — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:57:14 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

Uhm... the fact that you talk about signed vs unsigned drivers means that you are talking about 64bit, right?

Actually it's possible to have unsigned drivers in 32-bit windows...

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

Rossj — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:54:13 GMT

W3bbo wrote:
Thing with VLC is it's just a stopgap solution if your codec/DShow filters tree is fubar'd

Actually Dshow is only used if VLC doesn't have the codec (WMV*), so it is dshow that is the stopgap :)

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

W3bbo — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:51:09 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

W3bbo wrote:

DigitalDud wrote:
Is there anyway to get Vista to play DVDs when you have unsigned video drivers? The fact that you can't, is well, extremely annoying.

I'm stuck between using official signed video drivers that haven't been updated since March (thanks Dell!) and recent, bug-fixing ATI drivers that may or may not contain a "slight hack" to allow them to be installed on my laptop.
Why OEMs don't let ATI/NVIDIA distribute laptop drivers I'll never quite understand. But anyway, this has to be the first time DRM-related technology has actually pissed me off. I'm stuck between being able to play DVDs and having video drivers that can run recent games.

Microsoft, go fix the industry please, thanks.

Now then, AndyC, what's that about me getting hysterical over conspiracy-theory level DRM in Windows Vista?

Uhm... the fact that you talk about signed vs unsigned drivers means that you are talking about 64bit, right?

But we'll all be moving to 64-bit eventually.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

PaoloM — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:49:31 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

DigitalDud wrote:
Is there anyway to get Vista to play DVDs when you have unsigned video drivers? The fact that you can't, is well, extremely annoying.

I'm stuck between using official signed video drivers that haven't been updated since March (thanks Dell!) and recent, bug-fixing ATI drivers that may or may not contain a "slight hack" to allow them to be installed on my laptop.
Why OEMs don't let ATI/NVIDIA distribute laptop drivers I'll never quite understand. But anyway, this has to be the first time DRM-related technology has actually pissed me off. I'm stuck between being able to play DVDs and having video drivers that can run recent games.

Microsoft, go fix the industry please, thanks.

Now then, AndyC, what's that about me getting hysterical over conspiracy-theory level DRM in Windows Vista?

Uhm... the fact that you talk about signed vs unsigned drivers means that you are talking about 64bit, right?

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

W3bbo — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:01:48 GMT

RobbieCrusoe wrote:
I only use VLC on my PCs now, never have any problem with them.

Much better IMHO than WMP (not wanting to start a WMP vs the world thread, but in my experience VLC is better).

Thing with VLC is it's just a stopgap solution if your codec/DShow filters tree is fubar'd. I prefer to have DShow working perfectly, that way I can watch anything in any player.

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

W3bbo — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:56:42 GMT

DigitalDud wrote:

Is there anyway to get Vista to play DVDs when you have unsigned video drivers? The fact that you can't, is well, extremely annoying.

I'm stuck between using official signed video drivers that haven't been updated since March (thanks Dell!) and recent, bug-fixing ATI drivers that may or may not contain a "slight hack" to allow them to be installed on my laptop.
Why OEMs don't let ATI/NVIDIA distribute laptop drivers I'll never quite understand. But anyway, this has to be the first time DRM-related technology has actually pissed me off. I'm stuck between being able to play DVDs and having video drivers that can run recent games.

Microsoft, go fix the industry please, thanks.

Now then, AndyC, what's that about me getting hysterical over conspiracy-theory level DRM in Windows Vista? :)

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

RobbieCrusoe — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:46:46 GMT

I only use VLC on my PCs now, never have any problem with them.

Much better IMHO than WMP (not wanting to start a WMP vs the world thread, but in my experience VLC is better).

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

Xaero_Vincent — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:33:51 GMT

Whats so buggy about it?

Re: DVDs on Vista (more DRM crap)

DigitalDud — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:18:20 GMT

creditcard wrote:
libdvdcss

Sure I could probably use VLC, but its a buggy piece of crap.