Dear Microsoft | The Coffeehouse

numedia

daytrip00 wrote:

Sarcasm aside, you're saying upgrading the framework makes sense for every business, and because I cant see that my business is doomed to failure. That doesnt exactly seem like sage advice.

I think you misread my statements. Nowhere did I advocate that businesses will fail unless they get with the times and upgrade to 3.5. What I said is that if a software business cannot grasp basic concepts of how to create a robust and reliable installer, whether or not that includes redistributables, then there is going to be problems. And from what you have been describing, your business is having those problems.

I think all of us here are way beyond advising you from upgading to 3.5. Notice that we are all suggesting you stay with 1.1 or 2.0?

daytrip00 wrote:

So I'm summarizing your point, numedia: Any concerns about the size and complexity involved with using the .NET Framework 3.5 stem from "a lack of experience or knowledge" and if you cant acquire the knowlege to make that a non-issue "your business will be affected".

That sounds pretty ridiculous.

That's funny. If you want to deploy a 3.5 application and cannot get or do not have the knowledge or experience to do so, of course your business will be affected! So again, if you have such a beef with the 3.5 Framework, then don't use it.

daytrip00

numedia wrote:

Yes it is absurd because you chose the .NET platform to begin with.

I'm certainly regretting it. But by your logic, we have no right to complain when/if the framework reaches 10 gigs. As long as you're consistent....

numedia wrote:

If you want the best of both worlds, then I suggest using a different platform for development. Everyone knows that a larger runtime is required to deploy .NET applications. It's very simple, if you don't like that Microsoft has such a large runtime, then use something else or write your own. There's nothing stopping you from doing that.

If you didn't have a problem with .NET 1.1 or 2.0, then why don't you stick with that? LINQ is not "nessesary" for virtually any project.

Actually the runtime is the same. It's the framework that keeps bloating. And as an owner of a software company you must know that you cant switch platforms overnight (or at all, really)... What's to stop us? A million or so lines of C# code...

I agree that nothing from .NET 3.5 is necessary... I think I've mentioned that I'll be sticking with 2.0 about 10 times in this thread.

That doesn't stop .NET 3.5 from being a huge letdown (for me, yes maybe not for you).

But yea, bottom line, I'll be thinking twice (or more) before adopting any other .NET technologies.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

daytrip00 wrote:

numedia wrote:
I beg to differ. What the newer Framework offers is huge and makes it possible to do some significant things in your application. And yes, believe it or not there are thousands of things beyond just WPF and LINQ. As this thread has said before, if you don't want or need the new Framework feature set, then don't use it. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Basically Microsoft is saying that even though I only want to use a very small subset of these new features I have to carry the enormous cruft that comes with those "thousands of other things". Is it totally absurd that I would have concerns with doing so?

No, actually. Microsoft is saying that you can

a) use the .NET framework wherein they've implemented object oriented methods that are interdependent and as such, are a complete package.

or

b) eschew the framework, and write all of the code yourself. Perhaps in C. If you are really adverse to including unneccesary code, you can use ASM.

It seems, based on your incessant need to rant from the deep a$$ hole you've dug, that you should probably go with method b.

Let us know how it turns out.

Lloyd_Humph
If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.

Banhammer please, that was a little bit too far.

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

Now now, this is hardly appropriate behaviour for the founder of FAU-LUG.

daytrip00

At 110 posts, we seem to rapidly be approaching the threshold of Godwin's Law.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

creditcard wrote:

ScanIAm wrote: daytrip00 wrote: numedia wrote: I beg to differ. What the newer Framework offers is huge and makes it possible to do some significant things in your application. And yes, believe it or not there are thousands of things beyond just WPF and LINQ. As this thread has said before, if you don't want or need the new Framework feature set, then don't use it. What is so difficult to understand about that?Basically Microsoft is saying that even though I only want to use a very small subset of these new features I have to carry the enormous cruft that comes with those "thousands of other things". Is it totally absurd that I would have concerns with doing so?No, actually. Microsoft is saying that you can a) use the .NET framework wherein they've implemented object oriented methods that are interdependent and as such, are a complete package. orb) eschew the framework, and write all of the code yourself. Perhaps in C. If you are really adverse to including unneccesary code, you can use ASM.It seems, based on your incessant need to rant from the deep a$$ hole you've dug, that you should probably go with method b. Let us know how it turns out.
Give me a (I need to watch my language)ing break. He can use Java, Qt, GTK+, FLTK, Python, and like 20 other frameworks that aren't even half as bloated as .NET. You should stop being an a$$hole to everyone, if I knew someone like you in real life you'd have a broken nose you pathetic child. Your mother wasted nine months of abstinence and years of hard labour on your sorry a$$.

Yes, yes, mom is, indeed, a saint.

Do you know her?

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Were you really expecting creditcard to be different from his previous persona, SirHomer? Or the other ones?

Guys, let's be realistic here, ok?

Lloyd_Humph
If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.

Well this is going somewhere cool, I'm following now Big Smile

I can't wait for CC to get owned Smiley

Lloyd_Humph
If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.

creditcard wrote:

Lloyd_Humph wrote:Well this is going somewhere cool, I'm following now

I can't wait for CC to get owned

I have like twenty accounts, three of which are active posters for good measure. I'm kind of sick of this one, if you guys want to vote for a better nickname we can start a new thread.

Oh cool.

This is going to be awesome.

Quick, 9 admins, check his IP stuff Smiley

Lloyd_Humph
If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.

I think this will be the best thread. Let the massacre begin.

Wait, I shouldn't provoke cyber-violence.

Never mind.

Credit Card, get lost Smiley

evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }

creditcard wrote:

Lloyd_Humph wrote:Well this is going somewhere cool, I'm following now

I can't wait for CC to get owned

I have like twenty accounts, three of which are active posters for good measure. I'm kind of sick of this one, if you guys want to vote for a better nickname we can start a new thread.

Learning from past errors is one of the fundamental measures of "intelligence" in AI.

It would appear that you are lacking in this respect.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

creditcard wrote:

ScanIAm wrote: creditcard wrote: ScanIAm wrote: daytrip00 wrote: numedia wrote: I beg to differ. What the newer Framework offers is huge and makes it possible to do some significant things in your application. And yes, believe it or not there are thousands of things beyond just WPF and LINQ. As this thread has said before, if you don't want or need the new Framework feature set, then don't use it. What is so difficult to understand about that?Basically Microsoft is saying that even though I only want to use a very small subset of these new features I have to carry the enormous cruft that comes with those "thousands of other things". Is it totally absurd that I would have concerns with doing so?No, actually. Microsoft is saying that you can a) use the .NET framework wherein they've implemented object oriented methods that are interdependent and as such, are a complete package. orb) eschew the framework, and write all of the code yourself. Perhaps in C. If you are really adverse to including unneccesary code, you can use ASM.It seems, based on your incessant need to rant from the deep a$$ hole you've dug, that you should probably go with method b. Let us know how it turns out.Give me a (I need to watch my language)ing break. He can use Java, Qt, GTK+, FLTK, Python, and like 20 other frameworks that aren't even half as bloated as .NET. You should stop being an a$$hole to everyone, if I knew someone like you in real life you'd have a broken nose you pathetic child. Your mother wasted nine months of abstinence and years of hard labour on your sorry a$$.Yes, yes, mom is, indeed, a saint.Do you know her?
Your mother is a wh0re and you are the son of a wh0re.

Ah, then I guess you DO know her Smiley

BTW, she asked me to ask you if it was absolutely neccessary for you to cry when you were finished.

It makes her uncomfortable.

evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }

And we join you now, live from the thread which is at the end of an event-filled few months with Creditcard on the channel9 forums.

From advocating bringing down society and violently overthrowing the government, to falsifying evidence on Wikipedia to prove his point, is this bad-mouthed, spotty teenager now at the end of his term here on Channel9 before the banhammer comes down brutally to end his account?

We join him now, live from his mother's basement, where incessent yelling and violent behaviour are the cause of this recent unprovoked behaviour.

Hello Creditcard. Is it true that your consistently high blood level is due to having to type everything in by hand in Linux, rather than it just working in Windows, and have you considered that as an outlet for your stress?