Shipping Seven | The Coffeehouse

Charles
Welcome Change

This person's views are not an accurate reflection of what's going on in building 26 - I'd suggest that you not take this stuff seriously. For one thing, Windows 7 is still in planning phase (Vista SP1 and Server 2008 are what the Windows people are hammering away on, in reality) and there is NO official disclosure plans around Windows 7 - think about it: Vista is still relatively young and we haven't even released Server 2008 or Vista SP1 yet......

Unofficial "disclosure" is pointless and if you choose to believe it you could end up making bets on features and APIs that are non-existant because, in reality, there is no plan for them to exist.

When the Windows team, the people who actually make Windows and are therefore uniquely qualified to talk about it's details, have something to say about Windows 7, well, you'll hear about from them and there will probably be a video or two on C9. This won't be for a while so do not hold your breath.

This is one of the problems with the anonomous nature of the Internet coupled with blogging: anybody can claim expertise or insider knowledge when in fact they are neither experts nor do they have any real connection to the topic/company/product team at hand...

Next();

C

longzheng

Charles wrote:
For one thing, Windows 7 is still in planning phase (Vista SP1 and Server 2008 are what the Windows people are hammering away on, in reality) and there is NO official disclosure plans around Windows 7 - think about it: Vista is still relatively young and we haven't even released Server 2008 or Vista SP1 yet......

I have people whispering to me quite the opposite. They're running a much tighter shift than Vista. I remember Windows 98 being relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped Wink

Charles
Welcome Change

longzheng wrote:

Charles wrote: For one thing, Windows 7 is still in planning phase (Vista SP1 and Server 2008 are what the Windows people are hammering away on, in reality) and there is NO official disclosure plans around Windows 7 - think about it: Vista is still relatively young and we haven't even released Server 2008 or Vista SP1 yet......

I have people whispering to me quite the opposite. They're running a much tighter shift than Vista. I remember Windows 98 being relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped

Uhm. You do realize that I actually work at Microsoft, right?

Whispers are just that: puffs of warm air....

Let's not take this nonsense too far.
C

longzheng

Charles wrote:

longzheng wrote:

Charles wrote: For one thing, Windows 7 is still in planning phase (Vista SP1 and Server 2008 are what the Windows people are hammering away on, in reality) and there is NO official disclosure plans around Windows 7 - think about it: Vista is still relatively young and we haven't even released Server 2008 or Vista SP1 yet......

I have people whispering to me quite the opposite. They're running a much tighter shift than Vista. I remember Windows 98 being relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped

Uhm. You do realize that I actually work at Microsoft, right?

Whispers are just that: puffs of warm air....

Of course. Not discrediting what you've said and neither am I trying to build unrealistic expectations.

eagle

longzheng wrote:

I have people whispering to me quite the opposite. They're running a much tighter shift than Vista. I remember Windows 98 being relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped

Hering voices....OOOOOOOOOOOO

I think you were relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped, but maybe those voices told you about it...0000000000000000

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

eagle wrote:

longzheng wrote:
I have people whispering to me quite the opposite. They're running a much tighter shift than Vista. I remember Windows 98 being relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped

Hering voices....OOOOOOOOOOOO

I think you were relatively young when 98 Second Edition shipped, but maybe those voices told you about it...0000000000000000

Whereas, you, Eagle, are old enough to remember chiseling stone tablets. I think senility produces the same symptom.

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

Charles wrote:
Vista is still relatively young and we haven't even released Server 2008 or Vista SP1 yet......

Oh, come on. Vista is an abject financial failure. The production cost cannot be justified by revenue generated so far... 100,000,000 units shipped, but what is the revenue?

Vista is the Xbox 1. Windows 7 is the Xbox 360. We're not that dumb.

eagle

Long gone? He forgot his bear.....

Charles
Welcome Change

Minh wrote:

Charles wrote: Vista is still relatively young and we haven't even released Server 2008 or Vista SP1 yet......
Oh, come on. Vista is an abject financial failure. The production cost cannot be justified by revenue generated so far... 100,000,000 units shipped, but what is the revenue?

Vista is the Xbox 1. Windows 7 is the Xbox 360. We're not that dumb.

I'd say it's a tad early for you to make the proclamation that Vista is a failure... On what grounds? Oh, come on......

The point here is that

1) This blogger has 0 street cred and does not represent Microsoft or Windows in any way
2) Windows 7 is not even partially baked (in fact the oven is still pre-heating) - Yes, I know this to be true...
3) Conjecture is by definition false until it becomes reality

C

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

Charles wrote:

Uhm. You do realize that I actually work at Microsoft, right?

Whispers are just that: puffs of warm air....

Let's not take this nonsense too far.
C

Exactly, we do realize that and that is why we're willing to listen to other people.

There is only one other company that does product/program hypothizing worse than Microsoft....and that's Apple....except they actually ship.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Charles wrote:
The point here is that

1) This blogger has 0 street cred and does not represent Microsoft or Windows in any wayC

Street cred with you, perhaps. Not us. That's the thing. Realise that we don't have the information you have which makes you believe he's fake.

longzheng

Charles wrote:

The point here is that

1) This blogger has 0 street cred and does not represent Microsoft or Windows in any way

Of course Charles, but then does that also mean Mini-Microsoft and MSFTextremeover are also "fake"?

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

longzheng wrote:

Charles wrote:

The point here is that

1) This blogger has 0 street cred and does not represent Microsoft or Windows in any way

Of course Charles, but then does that also mean Mini-Microsoft and MSFTextremeover are also "fake"?

Exactly. Till we see something different...we go by what we got.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Cybermagellan wrote:

longzheng wrote:

Charles wrote:

The point here is that

1) This blogger has 0 street cred and does not represent Microsoft or Windows in any way

Of course Charles, but then does that also mean Mini-Microsoft and MSFTextremeover are also "fake"?

Exactly. Till we see something different...we go by what we got.

That'd be... nothing, right?

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

longzheng

PaoloM wrote:
I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

I wouldn't say before the IE8 Acid2 announcement there was a positive attitude towards the future of IE. Sure, that was part of the "keeping quiet" plan but it was still considerable negative buzz. Whereas Firefox 3 has been getting positive buzz every day in and day out.

Charles
Welcome Change

longzheng wrote:

Charles wrote:

The point here is that

1) This blogger has 0 street cred and does not represent Microsoft or Windows in any way

Of course Charles, but then does that also mean Mini-Microsoft and MSFTextremeover are also "fake"?

Mini-Microsoft and MSFTextrememakeover are in fact "fake". I say this because neither of these people have the courage to step out from behind the protective shielding of anomonity... Do you really think either of these people have any real impact on what we do as a company? Do you think Mini or Extreme affect our strategy or our business?

In the case of Shipping Seven, he or she has said nothing to indicate, even implicitly, that he or she actually works for MS on the Windows team... Nothing. Further, as I said, if the Windows team doesn't officially disclose this or that than this or that is merely conjecture and you should not take it to heart.

C

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

PaoloM wrote:
I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

Yeah you know, there was a reason I bought a Macbook right?

Vista wasn't worth buying a laptop for...Leopard w/ VMWare Fusion, Spaces, Time Machine, etc is worth way more than Vista is to me....

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

PaoloM wrote:
I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

Sure but there was a reason the full transparency plan was in place also , to get developers involved and get their support.

Sinofsky I believe is pushing something in between I saw referred to as "translucency"

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

longzheng wrote:

PaoloM wrote: I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

I wouldn't say before the IE8 Acid2 announcement there was a positive attitude towards the future of IE. Sure, that was part of the "keeping quiet" plan but it was still considerable negative buzz.

But you are assuming that "do whatever it takes to avoid negative buzz" was a goal in the first place.... Wink

longzheng wrote:
Whereas Firefox 3 has been getting positive buzz every day in and day out.

Well, kinda hard to keep quiet when you're building an open source product, eh? Smiley

eagle

Long is not gone!

longzheng wrote:
Firefox 3 has been getting positive buzz every day in and day out.

Long make funny every day in and day out. FireFox 3 hahaha

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote: I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

Yeah you know, there was a reason I bought a Macbook right?

Vista wasn't worth buying a laptop for...Leopard w/ VMWare Fusion, Spaces, Time Machine, etc is worth way more than Vista is to me....

Hey, whatever you're happy with, man.

So, you didn't buy a "Vista laptop" (that you end up doing anyways Smiley

) because you didn't know what the next version of Windows would contain?

Do you know the features of the next version of OSX?

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

brian.shapiro wrote:

PaoloM wrote: I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

Sure but there was a reason the full transparency plan was in place also , to get developers involved and get their support.

True, but that is still vastly the plan for developer-oriented releases. Hey, remember the configuration matrix that devdiv had to put out during the release of VS2k8? Smiley

brian.shapiro wrote:
Sinofsky I believe is pushing something in between I saw referred to as "translucency"

Not at the moment. I haven't seen ANY reference to the kickass features we're working on Smiley

They will leak, obviously, as that's human nature, but for now I'm very pleasantly surprised.

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

Yeah, except you bought Vista if your using it in VMWare Fusion.

So whats the difference?

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

PaoloM wrote:

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote: I'd say that the "keeping quiet" plan is working beyond anyone expectations.

We all know why this plan is in place and I honestly can't see a single reason why this should be changed. There are only positives out of it.

Yeah you know, there was a reason I bought a Macbook right?

Vista wasn't worth buying a laptop for...Leopard w/ VMWare Fusion, Spaces, Time Machine, etc is worth way more than Vista is to me....

Hey, whatever you're happy with, man.

So, you didn't buy a "Vista laptop" (that you end up doing anyways ) because you didn't know what the next version of Windows would contain?

Do you know the features of the next version of OSX?

No, but there is the difference in the plans between Apple and Microsoft.

General requirements

Mac computer with an Intel, PowerPC G5, or PowerPC G4 (867MHz or faster) processor

512MB of memory
DVD drive for installation
9GB of available disk space
Some features require a compatible Internet service provider; fees may apply.
Some features require Apple's .Mac service; fees apply.

Good Luck running Vista on anything like that really....I know at LEAST if not a good chance more that MAYBE OS X 10.6 or maybe even .7 or .8 will run on the MacBook I JUST bought....

Windows Vista Ultimate
Recommended system requirements

1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1 GB of system memory
40 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space
Support for DirectX 9 graphics with:
- WDDM Driver
- 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)
- Pixel Shader 2.0 in hardware
- 32 bits per pixel
DVD-ROM
Audio Output
Internet access (fees may apply)

And who knows what Windows 7 will require....why buy a new Laptop/Machine just to find out later (7 years?) that I'm gonna have to buy a new one...

Now I know enough that if I REALLY wanted to...I could've bought a "Windows Type" laptop and install VMWare on it and/or installed a hacked version of Leopard on it....and run Linux on it as well....but why when the base OS even needs half a server to run at base level.