Windows 7 at D6 - all new UI? | The Coffeehouse

RicardoClerigo

Is this credible?

http://d6.allthingsd.com/20080527/windows-7/

So those rumors about Microsoft Windows 7 making an early debut at D6?
They’re true. During tonight’s interview with Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and Chairman Bill Gates, Microsoft (MSFT) will demonstrate Windows 7’s all-new user interface.
Check back here this evening for exclusive all-access coverage of the announcement.

jamie

"all new interface"

??

wow

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

The prospect of an "all-new" interface for Windows 7 has me both excited and dissapointed.

Excited because I'm a Windows fanboi and closet armchair UI designer and like to see teh new shiny as much as anyone else.

Disappointed because we might get yet another new fangled yet unfinished UI that only covers the "core experiences" and leaves the old, lesser used UI in Windows to rot for another 3-5 years.

figuerres
???

jamie wrote:
"all new interface"

??

wow

or not wow.... I *HOPE* it's a Good move.... otherwise .... Expressionless

have to see it and use it to say ...

I seem to recall Mr. P posting here: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=405633

that :

Yes, we're keeping Windows 7 on a shorter leash than what we did for Vista. I can guarantee you that I can't wait to start talking about it, but there's a "controlled disclosure plan" (and I agree with the reasons of it being there) so we all have to wait a bit more.

If your customers want to wait for Windows 7 (are there specific reasons why they're skipping Vista?), you just have to tell them to wait until we announce an official release date, until then the only things I can tell you are:

We are working on a new version of Windows, codenamed "Windows 7"
It will be available in 32 and 64 bit versions
Development is scoped to three years from Vista's GA (general availability date)
It is currently in the planning stage.

so if #4 is true then how can they really be showing a new UI
*UNLESS* it's a Mockup?
and if they show a mockup and do not deliver the same UI they will get blasted again... Longhorn != Vista UI etc....

so I hope they (MSFT et. al.) do not repeat the Longhorn / Vista errors .... show an Idea, hype goes to Warp 10, delivery is not == hype etc...

stevo_
Human after all

Meh, sounds like hyperbowl to put a downer on any real outcomes from this..

7 is still in planning, so any UI is just a concept, and while the foundation systems from Vista probably allow for some massive adaptions to the UI, I just don't see it happening..

Could be some mistakes going on here though, all talk about keeping quiet about 7 yet so far, for an OS that has bearly started, there seems to be a fairly large amount of 'feature leaks'.. although non of which I guess are being confirmed.

intelman

Well, when does the beta program start, I want that connect invitation and the oppertunity to provide my own feedback about what I think.

In anycase, if this is true, I'm excited to see, but there is no webcast ... hm I hope someone leaks a high res well filmed video. After this "demo" can PalaoM or anyone else speak more about it?

longzheng

I was right Big Smile

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

intelman wrote:
Well, when does the beta program start, I want that connect invitation and the oppertunity to provide my own feedback about what I think.

There will be a beta, just be patient a bit Smiley

intelman wrote:
In anycase, if this is true, I'm excited to see, but there is no webcast ... hm I hope someone leaks a high res well filmed video. After this "demo" can PalaoM or anyone else speak more about it?

It depends. I may talk about what you will see in the demo (if anyone will provide a webcast), but very little else...

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

figuerres wrote:

It is currently in the planning stage.

so if #4 is true then how can they really be showing a new UI
*UNLESS* it's a Mockup?
and if they show a mockup and do not deliver the same UI they will get blasted again... Longhorn != Vista UI etc....

I don't know exactly what's being shown tonight...

figuerres wrote:
so I hope they (MSFT et. al.) do not repeat the Longhorn / Vista errors .... show an Idea, hype goes to Warp 10, delivery is not == hype etc...

We are being very careful not to do that.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

DCMonkey wrote:
The prospect of an "all-new" interface for Windows 7 has me both excited and dissapointed.

Windows 7 is running the risk of pulling off a new UI that works (e.g. like Office 2007), but executed in such a way it alienates a significant portion of its userbase (e.g. Office 2007), when just a little more work would have placated them (e.g. Office 2007).

stevo_
Human after all

The facts are that w3bbo doesn't like it Tongue Out

Honestly, the thing about users being scared by the drastic change of office 2007 is rubbish.. my father is in his 60s now, when he got office 2007 his productivity and understanding rocketed..

Theres an initial one or two times you have to learn the alternative to something, but the ux itself is completely aimed at trying to give the context to you that it believes you want at that time.. so its really easy to learn..

Actually its a guilty pleasure working with word 2007 for me, I can't believe something quite so useful is made so simple all because of a new UI/UX..

jamie

i think he means they could have still had an option to turn on the file edit view flyouts - for people that have used office for 10 years and are confused by the ribbon

wouldnt have much extra work - to accomodate everyone

RicardoClerigo

Webbo,

Could you be more specific?

Where can I find the facts that a portion of the Office userbase has been alienated because of the new UI?

Even assuming that's true, what specifically does not work for those guys in the office 2007 UI and what facts are there to support that claim?

Thanks!

UPDATED: corrected some bad wording

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

I think the people alienated by the Office 2007 interface are the same people alienated by the lack of an 'up one level' button in Vista explorer.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

RicardoClerigo wrote:
Webbo,

Could you be more specific?

What specifically does not work in the office 2007 UI and what facts are there to confirm it?

Thanks!

The Office 2007 UI artwork is hard-resource'd raster images. They could easily be drawn by GDI in real-time (as Office 2003's were). So you're stuck with either baby blue (looks bad with my black color scheme), a grey color (which is alright... but the yellow highlights ruin it), or a black colour scheme which looks just bad. If the highlights were orange it might have worked, but yellow on grey on black just looks bad.

Secondly, they could have easily added in a faux-2003 menu system for transitioning. Third parties have already pulled it off.

Third, why did they hold back "Scout" for so long? It's an essential tool and should have been included OOB.

Also, my other smaller gripes:

I'm afraid to click anywhere in Outlook 2003, almost everything is clickable and this makes me feel awkward. I prefer 2003's UI where you know that clicking on an empty part of the UI won't cause half the program's UI to disappear
Access 2007's UI is missing the options to easily create *.adp files, you have to resort to some pretty bad hacks to get it to work. Also, the home screen of Access 2007 is full of advets for Office Online and assumes you want to use Access for "home"-type databasing projects.
And the "Office button" is just bad. It is not immediately obvious it's a UI feature. Having a simple button labelled "File" would have sufficed and significantly reduced the learning curve.

RicardoClerigo

stevo_ wrote:
The facts are that w3bbo doesn't like it

Honestly, the thing about users being scared by the drastic change of office 2007 is rubbish.. my father is in his 60s now, when he got office 2007 his productivity and understanding rocketed..

Theres an initial one or two times you have to learn the alternative to something, but the ux itself is completely aimed at trying to give the context to you that it believes you want at that time.. so its really easy to learn..

Actually its a guilty pleasure working with word 2007 for me, I can't believe something quite so useful is made so simple all because of a new UI/UX..

My thoughts exactly!

The Office User Experience guys did a great job!

At work, I use Microsoft Project *alot*. Now that I know that the next version of Microsoft Project is incorporating the fluent UI I'm excited for the possibilities!

Can't wait for Office 14 beta to start Smiley

RicardoClerigo

W3bbo wrote:

RicardoClerigo wrote:Webbo,

Could you be more specific?

What specifically does not work in the office 2007 UI and what facts are there to confirm it?

Thanks!

The Office 2007 UI artwork is hard-resource'd raster images. They could easily be drawn by GDI in real-time (as Office 2003's were). So you're stuck with either baby blue (looks bad with my black color scheme), a grey color (which is alright... but the yellow highlights ruin it), or a black colour scheme which looks just bad. If the highlights were orange it might have worked, but yellow on grey on black just looks bad.

Secondly, they could have easily added in a faux-2003 menu system for transitioning. Third parties have already pulled it off.

Third, why did they hold back "Scout" for so long? It's an essential tool and should have been included OOB.

Also, my other smaller gripes:

I'm afraid to click anywhere in Outlook 2003, almost everything is clickable and this makes me feel awkward. I prefer 2003's UI where you know that clicking on an empty part of the UI won't cause half the program's UI to disappear
Access 2007's UI is missing the options to easily create *.adp files, you have to resort to some pretty bad hacks to get it to work. Also, the home screen of Access 2007 is full of advets for Office Online and assumes you want to use Access for "home"-type databasing projects.
And the "Office button" is just bad. It is not immediately obvious it's a UI feature. Having a simple button labelled "File" would have sufficed and significantly reduced the learning curve.

Well,

There are some valid points there. But we should all realize that some of them are matter of personal opinion (Heck! I've got a few of my own).

Microsoft on the other hand, does usability testing on this things.

From what I know, they're just as passionate as we are for creating a great and seamless experience using office.

If the data from those tests (and from the customer experience programs) supports your claims I'm sure someone will consider it.

jamie

brian.shapiro wrote:
I think the people alienated by the Office 2007 interface are the same people alienated by the lack of an 'up one level' button in Vista explorer.

i loved the ribbon.
i loved the blue.

i miss up Tongue Out

RicardoClerigo

brian.shapiro wrote:
I think the people alienated by the Office 2007 interface are the same people alienated by the lack of an 'up one level' button in Vista explorer.

lol !

You can actually type "alt + arrow up" to get that.

CKurt
while( ( !succeed=try() ) ) { }

W3bbo wrote:

DCMonkey wrote: The prospect of an "all-new" interface for Windows 7 has me both excited and dissapointed.

Windows 7 is running the risk of pulling off a new UI that works (e.g. like Office 2007), but executed in such a way it alienates a significant portion of its userbase (e.g. Office 2007), when just a little more work would have placated them (e.g. Office 2007).

Here is the solution :
http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Office-2007-quotLegacyquot-Mode/

jamie

re: You can actually type "alt + arrow up" to get that.

..i miss knowing its always there - without thinking about it or typing

jamie

DukeNukem wrote:

W3bbo wrote:

DCMonkey wrote: The prospect of an "all-new" interface for Windows 7 has me both excited and dissapointed.

Windows 7 is running the risk of pulling off a new UI that works (e.g. like Office 2007), but executed in such a way it alienates a significant portion of its userbase (e.g. Office 2007), when just a little more work would have placated them (e.g. Office 2007).

Here is the solution :
http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Office-2007-quotLegacyquot-Mode/

thanks - tory will like that

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

Something all this Office 2007 talk reminds me of: I hope that after the full Windows 7 UI is revealed (whether tonight, in Beta, or after RTM) that the UI team will be allowed and willing to talk about the design and reasoning for the new UI design/features, much like Jensen Harris did for Office 2007. I think his blog posts and videos helped a great deal to understand the purpose of the changes in Office 2007, and depending on the magnitude of changes in Windows 7's UI, will be needed there too.

We got a little of this with Longhorn/Vista, but too much of it was based on Longhorn stuff that didn't ship or shipped in a very different form.

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

W3bbo wrote:

RicardoClerigo wrote:Webbo,

Could you be more specific?

What specifically does not work in the office 2007 UI and what facts are there to confirm it?

Thanks!

The Office 2007 UI artwork is hard-resource'd raster images. They could easily be drawn by GDI in real-time (as Office 2003's were). So you're stuck with either baby blue (looks bad with my black color scheme), a grey color (which is alright... but the yellow highlights ruin it), or a black colour scheme which looks just bad. If the highlights were orange it might have worked, but yellow on grey on black just looks bad.

Valid point. I'd love to get full control over at least the color of the UI.

W3bbo wrote:
Secondly, they could have easily added in a faux-2003 menu system for transitioning. Third parties have already pulled it off.

Why should they have spent the time and money adding it in? Three points:

(1) Eventually, they're going to have to cut it off-- they would always have users resistant to change who refuse to even attempt to use the ribbon interface, and they can't support two types of UI forever.
(2) Third parties have already pulled it off. Why should Microsoft have spent their time on it?
(3) Where do you put new features in the 2003 menu system? The reason they switched away from it was because the menus were bloated and running out of space: 2007's not just about the interface; there are lots of nice new features that would just gotten lost in the mess of 2003's menu system.

W3bbo wrote:
Third, why did they hold back "Scout" for so long? It's an essential tool and should have been included OOB.

Amen, especially for that first time you discover that a command from 2003 isn't in the ribbon (Speak cells in Excel is the first command that comes to mind, but I've found others).

W3bbo wrote:
Also, my other smaller gripes:

I'm afraid to click anywhere in Outlook 2003, almost everything is clickable and this makes me feel awkward. I prefer 2003's UI where you know that clicking on an empty part of the UI won't cause half the program's UI to disappear

I don't use Outlook often enough to make any kind of educated comment on this, so I'll leave it alone.

W3bbo wrote:

Access 2007's UI is missing the options to easily create *.adp files, you have to resort to some pretty bad hacks to get it to work. Also, the home screen of Access 2007 is full of advets for Office Online and assumes you want to use Access for "home"-type databasing projects.

Anyone who's going to use a template for a database is probably making a "home"-type database project. You create your own database for any serious use.

W3bbo wrote:

And the "Office button" is just bad. It is not immediately obvious it's a UI feature. Having a simple button labelled "File" would have sufficed and significantly reduced the learning curve.

Yes, it is bad. A simple balloon popup when you first start Office would be sufficient, too. It isn't obvious that you're supposed to click the Office button, even though it's flashing the first time you start Office.

People will get used to it, though. Back in Windows 95, there was the "click here to begin" arrow by the Start menu whenever you started up because, to a user of Windows 3.1, the Start button wasn't extremely obvious either, and now we don't even have the Start text on the button anymore.

Koogle
I'm a Terminator - Astalavista, Vis7a!

=slighty offtopic =

so while some of us are still bashing office2007 ...

few days I was using excel and I was in a situation where I had a bunch of links in certain cels that I didn't particular want showing up all crappy blue and being clickable.. just wanted plain text links that don't get in the way when you're selecting stuff, and that also don't get printed out blue so they just fit in with the rest of the text style.. so I eventually just gave up trying to figure out a way myself and reverted to the help search and found this doozy:

http://office.microsoft.com/client/helppreview.aspx?AssetID=HP100963041033&QueryID=MQWDJ-UzG&respos=3&rt=2&ns=EXCEL&lcid=2057&pid=CH100648801033#RemoveHyperlink

I've never seen a set of steps so absolutly bloody ludicrus, just to remove interactive hyperlinks .. sure it works, but what kind of retarded method is that?!
===

"Microsoft on the other hand, does usability testing on this things.

From what I know, they're just as passionate as we are for creating a great and seamless experience using office. "

*cough* bullsht* I mean unless perhaps its just just lower level of experience they cater for or something? And was the deal with keeping the scout addon in there labs all that time.. could have just released it sooner than this year pfff dafools

really could go on bashing more areas office2007 lameness, but i'll just leave it for now or this could go on for a while.