http://mschnlnine.vo.llnwd.net/d1/Dev/App_Themes/C9/images/feedimage.pnghttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/$*#*@ DRM (Microsoft Reader eBooks)http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/en-usWed, 13 Aug 2008 14:59:30 GMTWed, 13 Aug 2008 14:59:30 GMTEvNet (EvNet, Version=1.0.3599.6114, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null)<P>Ok.. a <STRONG>few</STRONG> exceptions Maddus :-)) </P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421277Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:59:30 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4212770http://channel9.msdn.com/421277/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Ok.. a few exceptions Maddus :-)) ScottWelker0http://channel9.msdn.com/421277/Trackback.aspxAll in good faith,.<BR><BR>I trust my wife, so I am willing to give control over the car I've paid for to her,.. :)<BR><BR>But if someone has a "nuke" button on stuff that I've paid for, and it's a big faceless company, I agree with you!http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421265Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:09:28 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4212650http://channel9.msdn.com/421265/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0All in good faith,.I trust my wife, so I am willing to give control over the car I've paid for to her,.. :)But if someone has a "nuke" button on stuff that I've paid for, and it's a big faceless company, I agree with you!Maddus Mattus0http://channel9.msdn.com/421265/Trackback.aspx<P>Granted Bas there is not ALWAYS an option but, when there is, <B>NO DRM for me</B>. <BR><BR>In most instances I'll go without rather than spend money on something someone else can take from me on a whim - without compensation. Wbbo3 may have made interesting academic points but, where the rubber meets the road, DRM is quite simply unacceptable. If some artists/publishers wither on the vine due to foolish business practices, so be it. Others will fill the gap.</P> <P><BR>My Yahoo/Music Match (and other) DRM experiences were real&nbsp;eye-openers. I will not steal but neither will I set myself up to be stolen from. I really cannot express in civil terms the frustrations – nor quantify my wasted time. <STRONG>NEVER again</STRONG>.<BR><BR>Call me names if you must but I quite simply am not willing to give someone else control of something I paid for.</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421264Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:59:49 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4212640http://channel9.msdn.com/421264/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Granted Bas there is not ALWAYS an option but, when there is, NO DRM for me. In most instances I'll go without rather than spend money on something someone else can take from me on a whim - without compensation. Wbbo3 may have made interesting academic points but, where the rubber meets the road,&#8230;ScottWelker0http://channel9.msdn.com/421264/Trackback.aspxIs there anyone here who has (or has used) a Kindle? I was kind of put off by the 1980's fax machine look, but overall it seems like a pretty interesting device. And being able to download stuff while on the train or something (apparently, it doesn't need a wireless internet connection) is pretty cool. Not that it's even available here, but still.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421221Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:46:49 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4212210http://channel9.msdn.com/421221/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Is there anyone here who has (or has used) a Kindle? I was kind of put off by the 1980's fax machine look, but overall it seems like a pretty interesting device. And being able to download stuff while on the train or something (apparently, it doesn't need a wireless internet connection) is pretty&#8230;Bas0http://channel9.msdn.com/421221/Trackback.aspxThe reading experience on a PocketPC is great, provided you get, as W3bbo said, a VGA device. QVGA won't cut it. VGA (which is 192DPI) plus ClearType is actually sharper than paper. The only disadvantage I've found to reading on a PocketPC is when you have a lot of light, particularly sunlight. Reflections kill the readability (on the flipside, it's easier to read a PocketPC in the dark than real paper). If you don't have reflections, it's just as readable as paper in my opinion. I've read many dozens of books on it without complaints.<BR><BR>So far eReader seems to do its job pretty well. It's more customisable than MS Reader, although you can't set top/bottom margins. By default the text goes all the way to the edge of the screen which I don't like, and while you can set side margins, you can't change the top/bottom margin. I think I'll get used to it. Other than that it's pretty much identical to MS Reader from a "I just want to read my books without any frills" perspective.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421214Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:19:59 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4212140http://channel9.msdn.com/421214/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0The reading experience on a PocketPC is great, provided you get, as W3bbo said, a VGA device. QVGA won't cut it. VGA (which is 192DPI) plus ClearType is actually sharper than paper. The only disadvantage I've found to reading on a PocketPC is when you have a lot of light, particularly sunlight.&#8230;Sven Groot0http://channel9.msdn.com/421214/Trackback.aspxGet a device with a VGA screen. QVGA really isn't readable for extended periods.<br><br>Also, make sure it's on a 3.5" display and not one of those 2" Windows Mobile Professional phones (which are often QVGA anyway) because you'd be squinting.<br><br>Otherwise it's alright, perfect for the train and stuff; but I wouldn't use it for any large technical books.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421043Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:13:07 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4210430http://channel9.msdn.com/421043/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Get a device with a VGA screen. QVGA really isn't readable for extended periods.Also, make sure it's on a 3.5" display and not one of those 2" Windows Mobile Professional phones (which are often QVGA anyway) because you'd be squinting.Otherwise it's alright, perfect for the train and stuff; but I&#8230;W3bbo0http://channel9.msdn.com/421043/Trackback.aspxIs there not an option to deactivate a device?<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421039Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:55:58 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4210390http://channel9.msdn.com/421039/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Is there not an option to deactivate a device?JChung20060http://channel9.msdn.com/421039/Trackback.aspx<P><blockquote><div>There are tons of other places to buy DRM free.</div></blockquote><BR></P> <P>Maybe where you live, but not over here. So now what?<BR><BR><blockquote><div>Remember,&nbsp;<STRONG>There is&nbsp;always a choice.</STRONG></div></blockquote><BR><BR>No there isn't. And refusing to buy isn't always an option. It's an easy bit of wisdom to dispense from some ivory tower, but in the real world it's just meaningless.</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421032Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:12:36 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4210320http://channel9.msdn.com/421032/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0There are tons of other places to buy DRM free. Maybe where you live, but not over here. So now what?Remember,&nbsp;There is&nbsp;always a choice.No there isn't. And refusing to buy isn't always an option. It's an easy bit of wisdom to dispense from some ivory tower, but in the real world it's just meaningless.Bas0http://channel9.msdn.com/421032/Trackback.aspxPardon the OT, Sven, i'm thinking about buying a device for reading e-books, how's the experience reading on a PocketPC?http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421013Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:28:10 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4210130http://channel9.msdn.com/421013/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Pardon the OT, Sven, i'm thinking about buying a device for reading e-books, how's the experience reading on a PocketPC?La Bomba0http://channel9.msdn.com/421013/Trackback.aspx..or legitimately download the book and remove the DRM.<br>When I buy a paper book, It's mine forever. I may transfer it to different shelves in my house, but I can read it anytime I want.<br>I appreciate and understand the need for DRM, just can't stand the inconvienience of it all.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=421004Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:01:10 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4210040http://channel9.msdn.com/421004/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0..or legitimately download the book and remove the DRM.When I buy a paper book, It's mine forever. I may transfer it to different shelves in my house, but I can read it anytime I want.I appreciate and understand the need for DRM, just can't stand the inconvienience of it all.Red50http://channel9.msdn.com/421004/Trackback.aspxIn the case of eBooks, the only way to get a book without any protection is to download it illegally. There are only a few shops that have DRM-free books (in any format) and they have very limited selections.<BR><BR>The only DRM-free way to get this specific book legally is on paper, and that defeats the whole idea.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420997Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:31:32 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209970http://channel9.msdn.com/420997/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0In the case of eBooks, the only way to get a book without any protection is to download it illegally. There are only a few shops that have DRM-free books (in any format) and they have very limited selections.The only DRM-free way to get this specific book legally is on paper, and that defeats the whole idea.Sven Groot0http://channel9.msdn.com/420997/Trackback.aspx<P>My solution in this case has been to buy the book in a different format: eReader. I've never used that before, but the program for PocketPC is free and seems to work much the same as Microsoft Reader. The difference is that it uses a different DRM scheme: no limited activations, instead it embeds a code into the file that allows me to unlock it on my device. And that appears to be possible an unlimited number of times (even if it puts a count in the file, I still have the original file I downloaded on my laptop, and it can't use an "activation server" for unlocking either since the device didn't have Internet when I unlocked the file).<BR><BR>So if my reading experience with&nbsp;eReader is to my satisfaction, I'm unlikely to ever buy anything for MS Reader again, unless they change this stupid activation scheme (or stores start offering unprotected books).&nbsp;I will keep MS Reader only for the books I already own in lit format.</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420994Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:29:36 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209940http://channel9.msdn.com/420994/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0My solution in this case has been to buy the book in a different format: eReader. I've never used that before, but the program for PocketPC is free and seems to work much the same as Microsoft Reader. The difference is that it uses a different DRM scheme: no limited activations, instead it embeds a&#8230;Sven Groot0http://channel9.msdn.com/420994/Trackback.aspxI don't own a TV...http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420971Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:46:49 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209710http://channel9.msdn.com/420971/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I don't own a TV...turrican0http://channel9.msdn.com/420971/Trackback.aspx<P>I don't know what you are ranting about character assaults here... I meant clearly that I hope he suffers "AS A CONSUMER" and learns a lesson.</P> <P>I usually do not purchase the product AND at the same time let both the publisher and the author of the work know about the DRM issue. Send a letter to them. It's easy really.</P> <P>There are tons of other places to buy DRM free.</P> <P>Although, there is still the issue of "Unknown / Uneducated / Lazy - Consumer" which I undrestand fully. Like my old dad doesn't even know what DRM is until perhaps it hits him.</P> <P>...However, as a consumer : fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me.</P> <P>Ranting about how bad DRM is fine... but as a developer getting cought in this mess, there is no excuse to not be informed about issues of DRM. He has only himself to blame.</P> <P>Remember, <STRONG>There is always</STRONG><STRONG> a choice.</STRONG></P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420970Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:42:51 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209700http://channel9.msdn.com/420970/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I don't know what you are ranting about character assaults here... I meant clearly that I hope he suffers "AS A CONSUMER" and learns a lesson. I usually do not purchase the product AND at the same time let both the publisher and the author of the work know about the DRM issue. Send a letter to&#8230;turrican0http://channel9.msdn.com/420970/Trackback.aspxI use this site for music: http://www.magnatune.com/ <br><br>No DRM and you can get lossless downloads too. I recommend people support them instead of handing money to Fail Tunes, Magnatune actually compensates artists well.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420961Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:46:38 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209610http://channel9.msdn.com/420961/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I use this site for music: http://www.magnatune.com/ No DRM and you can get lossless downloads too. I recommend people support them instead of handing money to Fail Tunes, Magnatune actually compensates artists well.Bass0http://channel9.msdn.com/420961/Trackback.aspxYou know, that's one of the most well-thought out comments on DRM that I've read in a while. Kudos.<BR><BR>It may not be the money that talks, but in general the only people that publishers are interesting in listening to are the ones who are handing them their money.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420945Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:56:06 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209450http://channel9.msdn.com/420945/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0You know, that's one of the most well-thought out comments on DRM that I've read in a while. Kudos.It may not be the money that talks, but in general the only people that publishers are interesting in listening to are the ones who are handing them their money.Bas0http://channel9.msdn.com/420945/Trackback.aspxturrican, you're wrong. Here's why:<br><br>When someone pays for something, the money will (at least in most cases) eventually get to the person or persons who originally created the work or service. It's a way of compensating them.<br><br>When a product or service is only legally available in DRM'd form, but you have an honest consumer who believes in compensating authors then that person is going to purchase the product.<br><br>Remember that DRM is often forced upon a product by the publishers and not the original developers. Loads of game developers have complained that EA, Ubisoft, or ActiVision (the big 3 publishers) have forced them to use evil DRM like StarForce, SafeDisc, or SecuROM; sometimes they release patches for their own games later on that remove the DRM (as id did with Quake 3).<br><br>Not purchasing the product in the first place sends either one of two messages to the publishers (not the developers): "consumers clearly want the product, but don't want the DRM. So we should do it without DRM" or "see? piracy happens anyway and the product is unpopular so it isn't worth our time to bother selling it <i>at all</i>".<br><br>Guess which message the publishers usually get? Yep, the second. Very few "got" the first one, and those that did have received good ratings, like Amazon's MP3-only music store. The rest of them fall back on their old-world business models without considering the alternatives.<br><br>So the way to see DRM removed is to buy the DRM'd software, to show there is demand for the product, but to <i>also</i> inform the publisher that the product would be even more popular and better without the DRM. Feedback loops are important, but whilst it's said that money talks, but the amount of people needed to boycott a product to make an impression is far too many than know about the evils of DRM. So the next best thing is to actually write a proper letter (not an email) to the publishers and explain the situation. I don't believe there is any other better way to seek change.<br><br>Ranting on forums and character assaults won't solve diddly.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420939Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:48:49 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209390http://channel9.msdn.com/420939/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0turrican, you're wrong. Here's why:When someone pays for something, the money will (at least in most cases) eventually get to the person or persons who originally created the work or service. It's a way of compensating them.When a product or service is only legally available in DRM'd form, but you&#8230;W3bbo0http://channel9.msdn.com/420939/Trackback.aspx<P>So, still enjoying VHS, eh turrican?</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420937Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:46:26 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209370http://channel9.msdn.com/420937/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0So, still enjoying VHS, eh turrican?Bas0http://channel9.msdn.com/420937/Trackback.aspx<P>I blame "YOU" as the consumer who chosen to actually buy stuff with DRM in it. <STRONG>I hope you suffer. </STRONG>It is consumers like you who make DRM possible. If consumers didn't purchase DRM stuff, it wouldn't be there.</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420934Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:33:55 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4209340http://channel9.msdn.com/420934/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I blame "YOU" as the consumer who chosen to actually buy stuff with DRM in it. I hope you suffer. It is consumers like you who make DRM possible. If consumers didn't purchase DRM stuff, it wouldn't be there.turrican0http://channel9.msdn.com/420934/Trackback.aspx<P>This is exactly why I hate DRM. The legal consumer gets the shaft and the illegal "consumer" has the freedom a legal consumer would expect.<BR><BR>I de-installed Windows Vista Enterprise because it wanted to call home to the license servers at my work. The IT crowd put it inside the network, because they figure all laptops get on the network atleast once every 6 months. But in this particular case, I had bought the old laptop from my employer and gave it to my brother. So I had to take the laptop to my work or install the OEM Windows XP, since crippled Vista wouldnt let me start up a VPN. I chose the latter.<BR><BR>Just to show you that you are not alone and I also feel your pain ;)</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=420804Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:18:04 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/420803--DRM-Microsoft-Reader-eBooks/?CommentID=4208040http://channel9.msdn.com/420804/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0This is exactly why I hate DRM. The legal consumer gets the shaft and the illegal "consumer" has the freedom a legal consumer would expect.I de-installed Windows Vista Enterprise because it wanted to call home to the license servers at my work. The IT crowd put it inside the network, because they&#8230;Maddus Mattus0http://channel9.msdn.com/420804/Trackback.aspx