Posted By: iStation | Sep 28th, 2008 @ 6:07 AM
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Comments: 27 | Views: 675
iStation
iStation
Fuujin

inevitable detour to clean capitalism?

contaminated capitalism...

1997- U.S. refusal of ratification of Kyoto Protocol
2001 9/11
2001 Enron collapse
2003 Iraq War
2005 Bioethanol
2007 High-price of crude oil
2007 Price inflation
2008 Contaminated food in China
2008 Bailout to real estate bubble in U.S.

too expensive!

to creative clean capitalism...
we need brain power instead of oil power...

Heroes of the Environment - Heroes of the Environment 2008 - TIME
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1841778_1841816_1843874,00.html
Smiley

evildictaitor
evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }
It's ironic. When we discovered that global warming was a real issue and it needed addressing, it took a long time for science to work out how to sell its importance to the world, but we're getting there.

In Japan, we're selling it as "new technologies".
In eastern Europe we're selling it as "ability to make use of Kyoto and carbon credits to make hard cash".
In the third world we're selling it as "cheap, mobile energy that's easy to get hold of and you grow it yourself"
In the States we're selling it as "internalising energy, and reducing demand on dodgy terrorist states like Russia and Iran"
In China we're selling it as "get onboard, or Beijing will be flooded"
In western Europe we're selling it as "this is a serious environmental issue that needs to be tackled in this generation, not left to your grandkids to sort out".

All of the above arguments are true, but it's a bit depressing that politicians are so stupid that if you don't phrase it right, they don't listen. It's only relatively recently, after things like "The Great Global Warming Swindle" and the huge payoffs by Exxon Mobil that scientists have cottoned on that evidence and facts just can't compete with a media campaign.

The world is stupid, but the execs at Exxon will definitely go to hell.
Yes, that would make sense ... which is why it probably won't happen.

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
When did we find that out? And when did science sell the idea?

All the money we pour in the so called global warming, to keep 25.000 people or so at work, could be used for totally different goals. Goals that actually can improve our standard of living and goals that actually can be measured and proven with hard facts.

Like food and water for 3rd world countries. Cure for aids, cancer and other deseases.

What have all the gazillion dollars/euros/pounds we poured into climate change prevention brought us? Two years more on earth? So we dont die all in 3040 but in 3042! WTG! Meanwhile people are dieing all around us that we can actually help now, not in 1000 years, but now.
I dunno.

I would rather see the money put to something a little more useful long term, instead of using it reinforce the banks' notion that whenever they screw up, the government will use public money to bail them out.

Yup, I have heard that if they don't bail them out, that the world as we know it will come to an end; I'm just not altogether convinced.

Economic stability is a long term issue. Where will the money to invest in renewable energy come from if the present financial problems continue to get worse?

Also, if the proposed bill is passed then it won't be reinforcing the notion that banks have such a liberal safety net. Part of the conditions of the deal are that much more strict regulations will be imposed on them with the intention of preventing this crisis from occurring again.

In Australia we already have these laws in place, so while the rest of the world's banks are being injected with funds from governments ours are able to remain self-sufficent because they were never involved in such risky investments.
That's probably a bit too optimistic. I doubt the banks will be happy at the end of that process because they will have been sinking since the decision to invest the money in solar power. Remember that the bailout fund isn't a surplus; it's money that the United States doesn't have, so it should only be used in the event of a severe emergency.

I have nothing against solar power but at the moment it's not a high priority issue. Greenpeace activists will disagree with me here but if it was up to them we would be living in trees or something.
Handouts are awful no matter who they're going to.

Better idea: slash government spending.
evildictaitor
evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }
Anti-science, anti-evidence. You sound like a creationist. Why spend all this money looking for signs of evolution when we already "know" that the world was made in 7 days? Why spend all this money on nasa when we "know" the sun goes round the Earth and the moon is made of cheese? Why bother trying to understand or solve global climate problems that threaten to displace millions of people around the world when Maddus Mattus "knows" that it's all a made-up socialist plot?
You're half right - As most financial advisors would tell you, the way to get out of debt is to CUT SPENDING (what you said) and INCREASE YOUR REVENUE.  Remember, this bail-out/rescue/whatever you want to call it will be financed on borrowed money. Short of running the printing presses, the US does not have this kind of cash available onhand.

In terms of increasing your revenue, I had an idea. I've read somewhere that most corporations (read: not mom & pop small businesses) pay little or no tax. What if you simply (ok, not simply) require them to pay the tax rate already here and not allow any 'tax credits / writeoffs'?  I'm sure many would say this would push businesses further and further away from the US. I'm sure, to some extent they'd be correct. But many businesses couldn't afford NOT to stay in the US: the market is too big. And a smaller profit is better than no profit at all, right?

Just thinking aloud - I'm an amateur economist. Wink


Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
There you go, making it all personal again.

I guess if you can't persuade someone with arguments, it's best to make it personal.

Good job!
evildictaitor
evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }
I tried using evidence, but that doesn't work against your superior knowledge.
Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
Yeah, that superior knowlidge of mine is helpfull in all sorts of situations.

Sticks and stones mate Wink
ScanIAm
ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.
While it is fun to discuss, even with folks who choose faith over science, we should not forget that none of us are qualified to actually make these decisions.

When you need brain surgery, you don't ask a carpenter what he thinks.
evildictaitor
evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }
No offense, but what the hell does Google know about US energy? I mean when Shell and BP come out with plans for energy transitions and start diversifying their fuel base like they have been doing, it's a huge thing and it's a bafflement to me why the Bush administration contiune to ignore it, but Google? They're good at internet search and frankly not much else.
Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
At least with surgery I get to have an unbiased 2nd opinion.

I don't trust the results, it has the foul stench of politics all over it. That's all I am trying to say Smiley
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