Posted By: androidi | Oct 7th, 2008 @ 12:36 AM
page 4 of 4
Comments: 97 | Views: 6368
man this need to happen. i believe in a resource based economy. its funny how certain individuals control the government and the government controls so many individuals but yet individuals acts as if they have no power themselves. Saddam was a good person his. You have no proof to say he was a bad person but from the controlled media. You will never know for yourself unless you been there. Just like chavez the media portrays him as dictator but all he really is doing is helping his country and not our pockets. Zeitgeist and the 2nd one along with future by design made the most sense. We not saying this is the ultimate way for humantiy its just better then what we have present. If you have any better ideas then our current situation im all ears

If everyone throughout the ages believed like most of you do, there would never be a lightbulb or a telephone or any of the technologies you enjoy daily. Try hard, I know it is hard but just try to imagine that no one needed anything.  How could greed exist?  How could crime exist? You don't need to be raised in a world based on income or possessions or any of the monatary things that greed or crime are a part of.  It could happen and it could be eutopia but not if no one is willing to make it happen.

 

Bass
Bass
www.s​preadfirefox.c​om/5years/

I think there are people in the world who rather suffer if it means they are suffering less then everyone else. They rather be a one eyed man in a world of the blind, because then they are king. To these people, suffering is a good thing, total dysoptia is a good thing. If a "resource based economy" would ever succeed, these kind of people would have to be fought.

Lunaya said:
try to imagine that no one needed anything.  How could greed exist?

Surely the whole point of greed is that people want something they don't need. And that will always be the case, it's a basic human trait.

Because of human trash or waste like you is that this world is so * UP you *ing mother of trash *er,YOU ARE A HUMAN WASTE MOTHER*ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! YOUR LIFE FROM NOW ON IS CAST AND WILL ALWAYS GO DOWN HILL FOREVER YOU AND YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A SURVIVING GENERATION DUE TO YOUR DNA CAPABILITY TO BE RATIONAL AND LOGICAL SO YOUR DNA GENERATION WILL DECLINED!!!!

TRUST ME IT WILL HAPPENED, BUT TIME IS NEEDED TO COMBAT THE EVIL GREEDENEST IN THIS WORLD DUE TO THE LOW NUMBERS OF GOOD PEOPLE THAT WANT A NEW RESOURCE ECONOMY FOR THE WELL BEING AND SURVIVAL OF GOOD HUMANS BEINGS.

HUMAN BEINGS ARE EXPLORES AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, THERE WILL NEVER BE BOREDOM BECAUSE THERE WOULD ALWAYS BE A CHALLENGE TO CRACK DOWN FOR HUMAN NEEDS SUCH AS NEW DISCOVERIES AND TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES, WE WILL BE EXPLORING THE UNIVERSE AND LEAVING OUR SEEDS AS IT WAS MET TO BE AND AS WE WERE MADE FOR, CONQUERING THE UNIVERSE AND EXPLORE!

blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo

A challenge? I have one for you - find your caps lock key. And use it.

PaoloM
PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Also a dictionary. They're fun to read!

The problem is that those "alternate" energy systems are expensive because of the actual economical system itself. There are patents put there only by mere convenience. Electric cars are in development but it's developemnt is very slow. 

Cars basicallt work the same ways as they did when they were invented, sure they have new gadgets but the combustion motor has the same principle which we all know is inneficient and polutes the air.

 

Oil companies are not interested in free / renawable energy since all these concept and practices are a threat to their income.

 

Talking about costs have you ever wondered why electronics, appliances and everything in general lasts so few years? our entire economy and society is based con consumption. We want the latest and we wanted now. These contributes to polution, poverty and poor resource administration.

 

I do agree that some parts of a "resource based economy" should be questioned since resources are not fully abundant.

 

Problems we have to face:

 

People (all of us are afraid of change: people compare with communism, socialism, capitalism as if all those systems were fully tested and / or worked at some point. None of these were put to work as they were conceived specially because of the fact that all those systems were created as a self-sustained solution while the truth is that the base of all societies is money, not even religion or ideas... you need money to fund your idea or develop it, you need money for your church, you need money to survive and you need money to work.

 

Even in the cases where individuals have tried to isolate themselves in parted communities they have failed because money, want it or not, is the base of our culture. By removing money from the equation we solve a lot of issues.

 

Prices continuously go high, inflation, everything costs more and more as years go by. In paralel things tend to last less forcing the use of more resources and generating more waste. Your kids (same as we did when we were kids) need to learn more and more in orther to fit into a competitive world. Kids start to learn english / mandaring at ealy ages, they are tought from the start to retain using memory things in their brains. Books and schools do not teach to think, they teach to accept what's written and form individuals, competitive individuals to fit into a working society. Games, love, equality is good in books, religion, concepts but the reality shows you that if you find a wallet in the street with id and everything you better keep the money or you are a stupid person.
We are taught that robots and automation is the future but based on what... if a computer can do your work you are fired. You don't get a benefit. You are out.

 

It is easy to say communism or people is not competitive enough because I have a job, I work for myself and I can eat and have some entertainment... but if you see a little further you can see that through the years everything takes longer and more effort to achieve and it is not idea. We do it because we can, because we can afford i and because it is easy for some of us but nobody asks why a 30 year old person needs medicine to live. Most of the people I know, my age, around 30s take pills for different reasons. Blood preasure, stress, other reasons. We cannot use technology to patch our lives because money forces us to do so.

 

The problem is that money is an inventioned that may have solved some problems in the past but now we are so dependant on it that if you stop to think for a moment is freaking ridiculous. And yes, almost all crimes and problems are related to money: poverty, greed, jobs, etc, etc.

 

I think what Gishop and the others supporting the Resource Based economy is trying to say when they talk about a world with out "no money" or "no trade" is a world where humans are more mature and grown spiritually(please i dont mean religiuosly) were they are out of the materilistic mind set and were they give things cause they love to not becuase they demand something in return or do things because they want to not because they have to...

It is hard to imagine for some people such a world as they say these are no way practicle in day to day life... Well my brothers, what is impossible now is what will make the future... Thats what has happened in the past...

As humans we are driven by fascination... Fascinated by things that are not understandable and by things that are out of the ordinary or things that are difficult to relate to...

This fascination and quest for knowledge is the true character and nature of human beings not greed or selfishness,as far as I know...I mean once we step out of the way the society thinks or made to think by this monetary system, we can realise what we really are and what our real potenetials are...

"Man is a transitional being. He is not final. The step from man to superman is the next approaching achievement in the earth's evolution. It is inevitable because it is at once the intention of the inner spirit and the logic of Nature's process"                                                                                                                                            __Sri Aurobindo


You see when Sri Aurobindo talks about superman...he doesn't mean a man with super powers but a man who has shed all his materlism, Racism, Desires and sadism and all other things that his inner self does not ask for...

Nobody wants to hurt anyone but are rather made to in order to survive... Well you may say its nature's law "survival of the fittest" but this superman, Aurobindo talks about, out grows this law and realizes that "everything is you and you are everything"...

Being the fittest doesn't give you the right to control or rule the weak... Instead gives you the responsibilty to protect and help...

We don't even do that with our own species... Though we call ourselves intelligent and civilized... how many of us really care about the so called third world??? Even for that matter the rich in the third world don't bother about the poor...

I just have one question to ask... we have survived from Nature's obstrucles and still are and every human has a part in it...

 

Now from where the hell then some say that you are unfit to live because your poor??? Nature didn't invent money...we did and its our resposinbility to get rid for our own betterment...


All that money based system has thought us is to give more value for materials rather than "LIFE"...

We don't mind to kill few lives for money... Cause money has more value than "LIFE" as per the current economic system is concerned...

 

I am not saying that resource based economy is the only solution but am just saying that the current economic system is a problem and a crisis...
Indeed it enslaves the rest of the world just for some aristocrats to benefit...

 

 

As Martin Luther King said

"I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. That is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant."

 

This Unconditional love is what humanity must pursue not materilism or arguing that something like money has value...

 

I know in our current situation its impossible to survive without money unless if you intend to live in a jungle Tongue Out... If you do intend to live in a jungle you can survive cause Nature has given us the strength and intelligence but some so called wise men haven't given us the strength to survive without money in this so called civilised world... Now thats what i call irony...lol

 

Nature gives but man forbids...lol

 

Its from this state of mind that we have to grow up...

 

Let it be John Lennon or Bob Dylan or Karl Marx or Martin Luther or Gandhi or even Buddha for that matter have all dreamt of one thing...  The betterment of humanity...

 

So please grow up and come out of all the unwanted things that your conscience or your inner self does not want...

 

Its easy said than done... i know... but as per Aurobindo it is an inevitable spiritual (please,again I don't mean religious) evolution of man that would lead him to become a superamental human being losing all the desires that his inner spirit does not seek...

 

Hope the future is bright... And also hope for it to be...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, way to resurrect a 3 month-old thread.

Wow, what a daft, cliche comment!  heh..     I think I actually registered just to point that out to you, spivonious, ...

 

because I really appreciated Norm's post above.  His post was humanitarian in its fullest extent/essence. Man does not live on bread alone, no matter how much you would like to belive that we animals live on bread and sex alone, for you are spending your allotted time of your life reading this, living off "food for thought".

 

 

Anyways, to get right into the subject of the thread..   it seems that a resource-based economy is the original idea of the economy as a whole.  Spaniards would trade guns with Native Americans for food and fur to keep them warm in the winter.  Up until the 1930's, IIRC, the US currency was based on gold reserves. 

 

It was also in the Constitution that Congress retained power to create currency as needed for the nation, at will.  When the U.S. Government created a "private" Federal Reserve Bank to which it owed interest, it became quite clear that the gov't forfeited their own powers in creating the nation's currency without racking up in debt.

 

Capitalism *is* Survival-of-the-Fittest.  It's like a wild, untamed forest that is filled with all kinds of young trees and plants that are doomed to die under the bigger trees who refuse to give way for equal resources (sunlight in this case).  Capitalism (which is not to be confused with democracy) is actually much more prevalent in the world than Communism, even in China today.  The majority (or the democracy) would very much rather see a nicely inspired park with controlled trees and tamed plants that look more like this thing we call "Garden of Eden" or "Heaven" or "Utopia" or whatever, for us to enjoy a nice stroll in..   heck, each tree would be destined to receive a fair share of sunlight.

 

It would have been great if we could still grow just enough food in our backyards to feed ourselves with for the year, but we are now just as reliant on the world economy and technology as we are on our individual selves for survival.  This worldly construct is something called "humanity", for we are now all dependent upon each other for using technology to maintain the growing population that otherwise could not be fed everywhere across the Earth.  Why did all of the different cultures at various locations across the world coalesece into a single gigantic network of humanity?  To exploit each other for money?  One guy takes dozens of Native Africans over to a sugar plantation in America so that he gets enough money to buy his wife some fancy china and silverware?  Now, slavery is against the law, but the idea of Capitalism is still the idea of slavery in its essence, as it is with sweat shops in China that serve a small group of Nike board-of-directors and investors.  Those who are not financially independent to begin with are generally not privileged to do as they wish in what they think would best serve their own neighbor (or humanity) while being forced to work 40-80 hours per week out of the need/fear for survival. 

 

It is quite understandable that money is a bartering tool, a legal tender, and above all, an "agreement" among all.  Money would have worked just fine if we had faith in each other, in that we would all be honest and trustworthy with each other, but not even the most powerful banking institution would take the intitiative in trusting the borrower without charging a hefty interest rate or collateral insurance (only after ensuring that the lender has a established credit record).  Even today, in late 2009, the real-estate business is still on the decline.  The number of foreclosures and bankruptcies are still on the rise.  Economy is still not flourishing, especially for the middle-class and the lower-class.  Now, for money to work, the ones in power should be the ones taking the initiative in bringing equality to all.  The hard-working janitors should be paid equal to the CEO's who do much less physical labor (at least the CEO's should be paid less in order for the janitors to be paid enough money to save up for their own education).  Why was slavery made illegal in the first place?  It is the concept of inequality.  All of the human beings of the world came together to realize that all are human beings and that we all depend on each other, that we are one big family of humanity.  Soon, someday, we might have to fight against computerized beings (Robots and machines with A.I.).  A rich person cannot live in comfort without all of the hard-working minimum wage earners that respectfully let the rich person live on with his own pleasures, without killing that greedy basterd out of hate although the rich person is carrying out such an obvious inequality. 

 

Without faith in each other (or in humanity), money is little more than a bag of cynicism. 

 

We do not need it because we can all become a true democracy and vote on an exact allottment of the resources for each and every purposes, with verifiable polling statistics.  If one needs to travel around the world every 2 weeks for work purposes, then so shall the person be allowed the resources of travelling.  We are all so interdependent on each other that we do not need to make sure that we are maintaining equality with each other like as if we are enemies, for we should now live in peace.  Money should be banned from its existence, just as slavery.  It took forever for us to pass a law against racism..  let's hope that it would not take us forever to pass a law against the use of self-serving levereage upon each other with interest and inequality. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dodo
Dodo
I'm your creativity creator™ :)

Are you serious? You create another account for that? It is to 92% likely both post were written by the same person or to 99% by the same person or of a biological sibling to whom you were very close. Choice of words and phrasing would indicate that, except for the use of brackets vs. dots and emoticons.

 

Yes, I'm weird, I match philological patterns...

Wow, 99% biological sibling?   Oh man, I gotta find out if I have a twin brother somewhere, who was separated at birth!  Big Smile

To all you advocates of captitalism being the most "efficient" system.
Not one of you mention artificially induced scarcety, a consequence of the need for profit, in an inherently flawed system.
Ieg. the burning and hoarding of diamonds as mentioned in the film.
If you believe thats only the diamond industry and doesnt apply to other areas of society, your being naive, because humans
are the same all over, and compete within the same boundaries.
It's not an evil system, but because of it's competitive nature, the winner will always be the most ruthless.
The ruthless being the ones who increase profits at the cost of the enviroment, and human well-being.

It's survival of the fittest.
And the end result of this, i believe, will be very disturbing and sad.
Someone please prove me wrong, because i need to forget i ever saw this film.

I'd like the blue pill please.
And please excuse my english.

In reply to Bear Fox

Thank you for your appreciation

 

Norm...

 

I am sorry that I do not know more on world politics to contibute more to this thread but would like to share what I feel about this thread... So please spare sometime to read...LOL

 

I want to say to all that this thread is one of the most interactive and meaningful thread in the internet... People who have participated in this discussion so far have real concerns about our economy and more importantly for humanity..Smiley I can see...Smiley

Once the whole world or atleast half of it starts showing concerns like you guys our future will definetly be bright...

 

Knowledge is just like an energy it can neither be created nor destroyed but can be transfered from one person to another... That is what I see in this thread... every one are sharing their views and knowledge...

For the more we know the more we grow...

 

They say every human is flawed and has evil in him just like how every rose flower has thorns...

People only the stem the rose flower grows in has thorns not the rose itself... Likewise the society man grows in has evil not in man itself... Only the society incorperates evil not humans by nature...

 

Thats why I condem monetary system so badly...

 

All you have to do is to think...Think for yourself... You are your own master and do not fear that you may be bad or evil cause I believe that there is no evil in this world... Even a psycho killer will have a reason to cry or a reason to laugh... Even man eating wild beast can be your pet... You only need to show love to everything you see and everything you show love to will inturn care about you...

 

 

"The greatest enemy to any democracy or government is a common man thinking for himself"

                                                                                                         __Adolf Hitler

 

So start thinking ... Start asking questions and start searching for answers...

 

 

Hope the future is bright... And also hope for it to be...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"So what does a resource-based economy actually involve? Basically it's about how the relative prices of things are set. There are three approaches:"

   It does not involve any sort of prices whatsoever, unless you consider the use of resources as a 'price', though in a much different sense than the exchange of currency.
   A resource based economy involved a computerized network tracking, analyzing, managing, and distrubuting resources. The resources first go through an automated industrial complex, which in turn is transported directly to a product distribution center (or resource distribution center; I prefer product distribution center). This is done immediately.
   Now, the transaction between the person desiring the product and the computerized network is quite simple. After the product arrives at the center, it's pulled up to the front, and the person who ordered it gets it. That's it.
   Now, let me explain product distribution centers, and a modified version of the law of supply and demand (as used in a resource based economy). Instead of markets, stores, etc., the distribution centers are the centers of exchange (and perhaps production... but that's another explanation for another time). It is fully automated, and no sort of trading occurs; people order what they want, and it's provided ASAP, at prime condition. It's actually built to last, and it's free. People can also return items after being done with them, so products won't even need to be made that often (if they want to keep the product, fine, their burden).
   In this way, there's no need to really keep anything, as you can eaasily get it back at a distribution center, which will keep it's supply in check with demand, which will be exponentially lower due to the absence of non-quality products, 'recycling' of objects (people returning it, or having it taken back, after use), and the lack of wasteful products which must be renewed excessively. Note the 'wasteful' before production. Things such as food, water, shelter, and other necessities such as those are fine, of course. Actually, many things may still be produced that are renewed often; however, most (if not all) technological materials will be made as best as possible, optimizing their performance by multitudes.
   I mentioned supply and demand a few sentences ago... let me elaborate. Supply, in a resource based economy, is determined by the availability of resources which can be used to create a product, and how quickly that product can be made in the automated industrial complex. This would be relatively quick, as machines are providing the labor for production. Also, products are made with as high quality as possible, unlike our system today, which is subject to planned obsolescence.

   In a resource based economy, demand would be determined not by a consumers purchasing power, but simply by the consumer making a trip to a product distribution center (they may not even need to; home centers where one can order products from the distribution center could be used alternatively), in which they may examine the type of product they want, and the best variations of that product. From there, they choose what they want, add some artistic qualities (the color of a car, for example) and it is provided ASAP. By ASAP, I mean it will be provided based on the supply; which, again, includes the quickness and readiness of which a product can be provided.
   Supply and Demand are just that; what's in supply, and what's demanded from within the supply.
Those are the basics of how a resource based economy functions.

"1. All resources are dictated to be worth the same. This has a nasty side-effect that a loaf of bread "costs" the same as it's weight in flour. So there's no change in the baker's ability to obtain things via trade because his net "wealth" isn't changed by making bread. Indeed, if he has to go and make the fire that cooks it, he might be selling his life away. This is clearly unworkable."

   No resources are given any worth whatsoever. What a loaf of bread "costs" can be determined by the resources and energy that is consumed in the process of making that loaf of bread, both of which could be replaced easily. There is no net wealth value before, during, or after the process of making that loaf of bread. Also, it's likely that a baker wouldn't make it, though if a person was interested in learning how to bake, they're free to go ahead and become a baker.
   Ultimately, if a person wants to be a baker, they'll WANT to make the fire in order to bake the bread... which is their objective. Not for 'wealth' but for food (which can be obtained at a distribution center) and/or pleasure.
   To sum it up; there is no 'worth', or 'wealth', and making that bread was the decision of the person who decided to bake the bread. They decided to do so because they wanted to make bread; which they could easily obtain otherwise. They want to make the bread. Hopefully it doesn't burn, and they enjoy it (if they eat it). The outcome doesn't really matter in terms of 'wealth' or 'worth'.

"2. All resources are dictated to be a fixed value either by public vote or by some committee in society. The committee in society approach is classic communism. The value of goods are set by the party and trading at other prices is illegal. This doesn't sound like a bad plan until you notice that there are hundreds or thousands of resources all with quite subtle interplay in the economy, and a the movement of prices by small amounts can cause rather large changes to the economy (and thus the ability of the people to eat and be merry). The voting system is interesting, but with people having other motives (i.e. there are more people eating bread in society than bakers) this will nearly always work against the producer."

   Again, there is no 'value'. There is no public vote or committee determining whether or not an item is worth anything. Communism; no. Ability to go get something for free, in prime condition, ASAP, not having items with 'value/worth'; yes. There is no party, and there is no trading. There are no prices. There is no voting system, because you may simply get what you need as you need it when you need it (assuming you're not asking for the unavailable; i.e. a planet, with tons of beans on it, right this very moment). There's no need for a voting system. The producers in the economy are machines.

"3. The value of resources is determined by the most recent price traded, and there are no limits on what price a good can be traded for. This is classic capitalism. If resource B is in high demand, the value of resource B goes up. If resource A has a massive overproduction, the value of A falls."

   No prices, no trade. No 'goods', just products (though I suppose you could call them the same thing; goods insinuates trading of some sort, however, of which there is none). Capitalism; no. (Again) Ability to go get something for free, in prime condition, ASAP, not having items with 'value/worth'; yes. If resource B is in high demand, the demand will be met. Production will be done, if necessary, though it probably won't need to be for the vast majority of products. Food, however, will be produced often, if not constantly, and in large amounts. Cars, computers, and houses, on the other hand, won't (backtrack to the little part about the absence of planned obsolesence).
   There won't be massive overproduction, nor underproduction, as supply will be met to meet the exact demand. Otherwise, the computerized system, or the automated industrial complex, is malfunctioning (which I don't believe is likely to occur; However, I cannot debate this point thoroughly, unfortunately, as I'm not savvy in the field of tech). And once more, there is no 'value'.

  
"If you want, you can think of money of the various resources as a quantitative measure of the resource's importance to society, and the reward for bringing more back. If you think of it like this, you'll understand that actually it doesn't matter HOW abundant resources are in society, always be priorities for resources, therefore trading, and there'll always be economists who think of things in terms of filthy lucre."


   As for money being the quantitive measure of resource's important society; agreed. However, the prioritization of the use for resources does not dictate the use of trading. The automated industrial complex and computerized distribution centers could be exceedingly efficient, and certainly better than today's system, at prioritizing the use of resources, the process of turning those resources into the desired products, and distributing those products to those who demand it. No trading needs to be done, whatsoever.
------------------------

To the OP: Fine, let the 80% of the world's population party. They won't have drugs of any sort, so fine. Let them dance, chat, and have fun. Of course, people aspire to achieve more than party all the time, so that certainly won't be a chronic problem. Not that it's a problem in the first place. It's unlikely that people would spend their entire lives partying all night long... xD That concept is funny though. I think I may use it in a story. O.o
----------------


Edit: AHAHAHA, I didn't realize that I was replying to a guy who posted a long time ago and probably won't read this again... oh well. O.o

Bass
Bass
www.s​preadfirefox.c​om/5years/

I like this topic, but these drive by posters are getting silly. This is almost like "THE HARDEST RIDDLE"

Bass
Bass
www.s​preadfirefox.c​om/5years/

Pwned? Smiley

 

Problem I see with a "resource based economy" is labor is still very important in our economy.. Computers haven't eliminated labor and at this point even with investments in infrastructure can not. It will take more R&D in Computer Science for this kind of economic system to be viable.

In a resource based economy in which food and living necessities were free, I would do very different things.  I have a passion to study science and also for learning about health.  I want to be able to discover better ways of being healthy and be a teacher.  Right now, every time I think of what I really want to do based on my interests I always come back to what my bills are and that I must keep working many hours a week in a job that I do not enjoy in order to pay my bills.

 

In a resource based economy, I would spend most of my time following my passions of discovering better ways of expressing health.  I feel like I have a lot to give from my heart but I also feel trapped by my bills and the passions in my heart are never fulfilled.

 

Yeah, I know I could say, WTF and spend my time in an area that I am passionate about but then my family would come crashing down with no money to pay the bills until I could make some money doing what is in my heart.

 

In a resource based economy, there would still be lots and lots of work done but it would be done by people who are passionate about that work.  There are people that like to do about anything.  It is great that we have so many different interests.  If there was work that no one wanted then people would volunteer based on their passion to be of service until a technological solution is made.

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