The best Ultimate Extra | The Coffeehouse

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

...a [sizable] discount for Windows 7.

For me this will make up for the lack of Ultimate extras so far.

Thoughts?

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

mvpstar,

It's normally costs less money to upgrade from an expensive edition than from a cheaper edition, so I'd guess we'd see that here also

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

Would you pay the ultimate price for Windows 7?

Ahem. Anyways...

I'd just like to see one version of Windows 7

For $129 retail full version (OEMs would of course still get a bulk discount).

No upgrade version. No basic/premium/ultimate/enterprise/toaster versions.

One version.

That's it.

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

In reply to DCMonkey

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:04 PM

DCMonkey,

Or two versions, regular and Server?

I think there should only be one consumer version also, but I like the concept of extras and I think it would work if people could pay a one time fee for an extras subscription. The subscription would last until the next version of Windows is released.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

In reply to DCMonkey

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:04 PM

Not going to happen, market segmentation works for Microsoft (unfortunately). Most people seem fine with Home Premium and wouldn't pay more for features in Ultimate they'd never use, and yet there are people happy with paying through the nose for more features.

I think Apple doesn't do it because they feel all their consumers are the same, plus the fact they control the hardware means they'd never be a need for "OS X Home Basic" or anything.

Segmenting Windows is fine, so long as it isn't oversegmented, that is all.

A single edition for Homes, fine. A single edition for Business/Professional use, and maybe a single edition that combines both (but I'd rather see the "Pro" versions being strict supersets, like how MCE2005 is a superset of Professional). As for the Embedded crowd they can do what they want as it doesn't impact consumers.

That way you don't need Starter / Home Basic / Premium, or Business / Enterprise.

I've got a long-term wager to make:

"In 10 years' time Windows will come in the following editions:

Embedded
Core // to appease the former PC-DOS OEM crowd
Starter // exploiting 3rd world nations hurrr
Netbook // just like Windows XP TabletPC Edition
Home Basic
Home Premium
(Small )Business
Enterprise
Advanced Enterprise // Enterprise but with more stuff big-corporations think they'll need
Ultimate
Ultimate Premium // has the features of Advanced Enterprise"

Oh, and don't forget the "N" (no WMP) and "K" (no Messenger) variants for Europe and Korea respectivly.

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

In reply to brian.shapiro

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:20 PM

I was just talking about the client.

And I think anything that would fit into "extras" should just be a promotional freebie, or sold as "plus packs". You pay, you get something, not the promise of something.

Your point about how long a susbcription should last is a good one. Software subscriptions wher eyou basically pay full price and an additional fee with no guarantees that anything will be delivered during that term have alway felt like a rippoff to me. My first experience with it was way back with AutoCAD. They never released a new version within a term. You basically always paid for two years to get one version. Then in the early days of Win95 and Visual C++ it wasn't so bad. New betas to support Win95 came out ofthen and it felt like you were getting value. That morphed into the MSDN subscription.

Nowadays, the MSDN library is free online (and easier to use), OSen are coming out every 3 years or more and you retain rights to what you have even if you let your sub expire. So I'm cancelling my sub until VS 2010 ships. I can still use the DVDs I have (I never bought into the online only push they did a while back) If I need to test on other OSen.

Don't get me started on Software Assurance. It's another pay and maybe something will come out in the next X years. I got it for our SBS 2003 back in 2004 because MS was almost certain to get r2 out in a decent timeframe. And they did. It would have been a waste of money for anything else.

Bah.

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

In reply to W3bbo

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:20 PM

Yeah, I know they'll keep doing it if the sales data show it works. But I can't help but think that the explosion of choice results in analysis paralysis and the consumer just decides its all too complicated to figure out and sticks with what they have.

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

In reply to DCMonkey

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:43 PM

If there were some type of subscription, I'd certainly hope that they would fulfill the promise to deliver extras, but they could also add some other type of service like software support, or at least a few extras up front that would be worth the fee.

joechung

In reply to W3bbo

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:20 PM

There isn't just one version of Mac OS X. Mac OS X Server is a server version of Mac OS X. Plus there is a version of Mac OS X that powers the iPhone. I agree that the Mac OS story isn't quite as fractured as Windows.

Ray7

In reply to joechung

#Oct 30th, 2008 @ 1:49 AM

Well in that case, we could also throw Windows Mobile into the mix.

I don't think the mess that is Vista versioning comes anywhere near the simplicity of the Apple way of doing things.

Of course, Apple has a very limited range of machines to worry about, but that really doesn't excuse Microsoft.

Vista Home
Vista Business
Vista Ultimate
Vista Server (or whatever)

Can't really see why we need all the other crap.

tfraser

In reply to Ray7

#Oct 30th, 2008 @ 3:42 AM

You need all the other crap because limiting the versions to those that you listed will either lock out users or hand them an OS that's not well-suited to their needs.

Assume that Vista only existed in the four versions you listed. What would people from developing nations use? What would home users with low-performance computers use? What would enterprise customers do if the only business-like version is targeted at small businesses?

Edit 1: An IBM ad that I just saw said 86 percent of the world's population will be living in emerging markets by 2050. That's definitely a user base that Microsoft will want to penetrate and they need Windows Vista Starter in order to do so.

jedimasterk

In reply to W3bbo

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:20 PM

Another feather in Linux hat. Especially now that the economy is bad!.

jedimasterk

In reply to brian.shapiro

#Oct 29th, 2008 @ 5:54 PM

They lied through their teeth about Ultimate extras!. They got the Ultimate cash back from you.

tfraser

In reply to jedimasterk

#Nov 8th, 2008 @ 11:03 PM

Um, isn't it better to have more versions when the economy is bad? That way there can be a version with less features at a lower price.

CreamFilling512

Microsoft Tinker is easily worth the price of admission alone.

La Bomba
Boing!

Something to reward loyalty...how about it MS? Someone email Ballmer with the idea.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

In reply to joechung

#Oct 30th, 2008 @ 1:49 AM

Actually, the iPhone's OS is always referred as "OS X" and never has the "Mac" moniker. Same kernel, totally different everything else (even the dev API).

jedimasterk

In reply to tfraser

#Nov 8th, 2008 @ 11:17 PM

Would it not be better if they didn't charge so much when the economy is bad!. $299.00 for Ultimate. Ridiculous!!. They get free beta testers and then steal from your pocket!.

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

In reply to jedimasterk

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 5:59 AM

Or you just get the OEM version like everyone else.

jedimasterk

In reply to Bas

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 6:01 AM

You still have to buy a piece of hardware to get an OEM copy. Will see how many upgrade!. Don't be surprised if the figures are low, for what they will charge!. Economy speaks for itself!. MS reputation really went downhill after the Vista scam. You think people will be so eager to upgrade, when there are cheaper and better alternatives out there.

Sven Groot
My name has 9 letters. Coincidence? I think not...

In reply to jedimasterk

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 6:14 AM

Not many people upgrade anyway. It's purely something that enthusiasts do. Regular PC users never update their OS, they wouldn't even if it were free.

tfraser

In reply to jedimasterk

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 5:59 AM

Like I said before, with more versions there is one that has less features and therefore costs less. You don't have to purchase Ultimate if you can't afford it.

Also, official beta testers were offered a free licence for either Business or Ultimate once Vista was released. I don't see where the stealing part comes in here.

GoddersUK
I CAN has cheezburger and you CAN'T has stop me!

In reply to jedimasterk

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 6:14 AM

What's the cost of an IDE cable or case screw compared to the cost of an OS?

PerfectPhase
"This is not war, this is pest control!" - Dalek to Cyberman

In reply to GoddersUK

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 6:26 AM

What I think would really help is a simple way to upgrade from version to another, say home basic to ultimate. It's already the same media to install the thing, how hard can it be to allow us to enter a new key and it just install some new packages!

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

In reply to jedimasterk

#Nov 9th, 2008 @ 6:14 AM

You think people will be so eager to upgrade, when there are cheaper and better alternatives out there.

Judging by how the market share of those alternatives hasn't really increased in the last couple of years, I suppose there's still lots of people upgrading, yeah. Like you said, economy speaks for itself.