Keeping up with the times | The Coffeehouse

corona_coder
Only Proprietary software vendors deal in absolutes.

I didnt kill myself but I have kept up with the times. I love the fact that Microsoft was called out on Infoworld about Windows 7 being Windows Vista with a new theme. No performance enhancements have been made and as I suspected you will need 2 gig of RAM and will still likely need to remortgage your home to buy it. Trying to resell yesterdays technology is worthless. Keep funding rj's distro PCOS, thats the way to go Microsoft.

section31
OutOfCoffeeException

They have really good pizza here in Vicoria. Especially the five cheese is awesome!

Charles
Welcome Change

Funny. I sit here reading this nonsense and feel compelled to reply. For one thing, I'm running Windows 7 on a machine that Vista could not run. In fact, the machine is old enough that it is no longer supported by it's manufacturer. Windows 7 Pre-Alpha (M3) runs really well on it. So well in fact, that this machine is now my main home machine. Now, the technical details of why Windows 7 can run so well on lesser hardware are based on many changes to the core system (which is fundamentally Vista). There is no other explanation. I see what I see and I like what I see.

All of this said, Windows Vista SP1 blazes on my more powerful machine (another laptop primarily used by my girlfriend) and is highly reliable, stable, boots fast, resumes incredibly fast. Basically, it's rock solid.

Windows 7 is not Windows Vista, but it is based on the same core OS (though make no mistake, the Windows 7 core has been improved through many learnings from Vista telemetry data and a great deal of customer feedback as well as many engineering innovations concocted by Windows engineers that did not arise during Vista development because, well, engineering innovation takes time and operating systems do not evolve in a vacuum - lessens learned from Vista in the real world helped stimulate new ideas that find their way into next iterations of Windows...).

Windows 2000 was the first iteration of a client OS based on NT. Windows XP was the next (and more user friendly) incarnation of the OS introduced in Windows 2000. Windows Vista is a very different OS than XP, it's an evolutionary step, as opposed to a modest step (this is the basis of many of the application compatibility problems first encountered when Vista shipped,).

In much the same way as Windows 2000 grew into Windows XP, Windows Vista will form the basis of Windows 7. This does not mean that Windows 7 is just Vista with a new shell. That's a very ignorant way to think about it and it's completely untrue to boot! But don't take my word for it. Go read (and understand) the Engineering Windows 7 blog and watch the Mark Russinovich interview, Inside Windows 7 (make sure you actually listen to what he says).

kettch

In reply to Charles

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 10:17 PM

I very much recommend the Mark Russinovich video. I'm no expert in OS internals, but even I can understand that there are significant changes under the hood. Are these the people who still contend that Vista is nothing more than a slightly modified version of XP with a new theme?

A Windows 7 DVD recently manifested itself on my desk. I've currently got it installed on a machine that is barely adequate for Vista. With 7 on it, you'd never know the computer was so old.

corona_coder
Only Proprietary software vendors deal in absolutes.

In reply to section31

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 9:59 PM

Proper response for someone who doesnt know which side is up. If you were trying to speak up for the Windows using crowd my friend you just proved you werent even in my league.

Charles. Here is a link to the article I was referring to.

Charles
Welcome Change

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 10:59 PM

The author is wrong on many fronts. For one thing, MinWin is NOT a new kernel... MinWin is simply the minimal set of OS components required to boot Windows (a Windows minus many of the basic features a typical user would expect to be present...). And nobody in Redmond is claiming that Windows 7 is a rewrite... Sinofsky et al have stated so explicitly on their E7 blog. Again, go read it. Further, the author is testing a pre-Alpha version of Windows 7 and making judgements that will likely hold little water when Windows 7 RTM arrives. The fact is, as I said above, I am running M3 on a machine that cannot handle Vista. What does this mean? Well, it means much more than the author suggests.

I'd imagine Windows engineers will reply to his assertions and assumptions. They are the right folks to engage in a reasoned discussion with the author at InfoWorld. I'm just a lowly software technographer.

section31
OutOfCoffeeException

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 10:59 PM

Ohh I'm sorry but my comment refelects only the level of your post. So if you want more intelligent response from me then post some bright content. I just tried to stay in "your league".
Maybe next time!

jh71283
Throw new System.Beverage. OutOfCoffeeException()

If you need to remortgage to pay $179 for a piece of software, then you have some issues.

Maybe it's too much freebie open source development.

Try some windows development, that should help pay the bills Smiley

evildictaitor
if( !succeed( try() ) ) { while(true) try(); }

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 10:59 PM

corona_coder said:
you just proved you werent even in my league.

Charles is definitely in a whole different league from you, that's for damn sure. You have your own special league that puts you just behind small cabbages in level of cognitive ability which only you and SpectateSwamp share.

Ray7

In reply to Charles

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 10:17 PM

I know that folk say we shouldn't reply to a CC thread, but when I read them, I usually find at least one post that usually leaves me impressed with Windows and/or its development teams.

Thanks for taking the time to post Charles.

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

In reply to Ray7

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 1:53 AM

At first I thought "Man, Charles. Don't humor him by responding", but I'm actually inclined to agree now. Sure, corona is simply trolling and not interested in hearing any replies. He undoubtedly doesn't believe what he's saying anyway. So Charles' reply is wasted on him, and we all know that. But there's no doubt hundreds of people who read this thread or will come across it via a Google search in the future, and they don't know about corona's history, nor that he's a simple troll that nobody takes seriously. They'll just see a bunch of nonsense, and can either dismiss it as nonsense or take it away as fact. With an actually insightful post below it, they'll be more likely to choose the former. It may humor corona, but it'll also prevent people from thinking like corona pretends to think.

stevo_
Human after all

I said yonks and yonks ago, c9 should have a feature where posters can be ranked and their post then visually is effected by that.. I've since seen engadget and other places do just this - although I consider engadgets to be pretty ironic because now i focus more to read the * someone wrote..

I could have been a millionaire Sad

I get the feeling the c9 devs are avoiding anything related to this forum, perhaps their working on something new from the ground up, or just working on something entirely different.. I'll admit - i understand not wanting to work with something you cannot stand, even if you bore it Tongue Out

corona_coder
Only Proprietary software vendors deal in absolutes.

In reply to section31

#Nov 13th, 2008 @ 11:35 PM

Actually my post reflects technology issues and how Microsoft is un-innovative and just trys to throw around legacy technology, yours has no reflection.. So my advice, go on south beach and remember to take your ritalin. Like I said, you arent even in my league and you just keep digging yourself deeper. No go run and play while the adults talk.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 7:14 AM

Hey corona. No offense but could you tell me who is in your league?

corona_coder
Only Proprietary software vendors deal in absolutes.

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 7:14 AM

Thats one thing Channel 9 that I can always count on. You ussually attack me instead of providing any substance. Charles is the only one that has impressed me in this exchange. This just proves two things to me, you either arent really in my league or you know Im right and just dont want to admit it. Either way, ast the author of that article wrote in another blog entry its time to move on to better systems. I personally will trust someone who doesnt work for "the mothership" more than one who does. When 7 goes for sale, I will be waiting outside again with gNewSense.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 7:27 AM

Corona, people attack you because of the tone of your posts. There are a lot of people here who actually like Linux. Some niners use Linux some don't. I would say that most of us are open to any technology. It'snot the technology why you get attacked.

But you start threads in a way where you say that everything else than GNU Linux is crap, doomed and part of the dark side. After that you are not open to a discussion but rather try to ignore most of the comments and repeat everything over and over again without trying to find an agreement.

You could bring your points but try to be a little bit more moderate. If you are moderate the answers will be moderate too. Don't expect people to immediately reply in a moderate way but when people realize that you changed your tone a little bit they will too!

Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

In reply to littleguru

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 7:34 AM

That's because he's trolling.

Herbie

littleguru
<3 Seattle

In reply to Dr Herbie

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 7:55 AM

I don't like the term "trolling". I think it is embarassing. Instead of putting corona into an edge and point at him we should help him how to get a discussion going ...

Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

In reply to littleguru

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 8:47 AM

I don't like the word "trolling" either, I much prefer to say "being an attention seeking d*ck".
Corona could easily start a discussion if he wanted to he just doesn't want to. He's not stupid (you have to know what makes people tick to be good at trolling\being an attention seeking d*ck).

I stood up for corona in the past when he said something rash, but he's spent that goodwill.

I do enjoy it when corona posts, but only because it's so blatant it's funny.

Herbie

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

In reply to littleguru

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 8:47 AM

It's not like he's unable to get a normal discussion going, it's that he doesn't want to. Helping him is not only not necessary, it's also pointless.

Charles
Welcome Change

In reply to corona_coder

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 7:27 AM

Randall is a sesnationalist. His pieces are full of misunderstanding, unfounded assertions and incorrect assumptions. Looking over his body of work with regards to Windows generally it's clear to me that Randall is simply trying to get some attention (this is what many journalists do). Just as journalists proclaimed MinWin as the new WIndows kernel (wrong) and Midori as the future of Windows (wrong again) these two pieces reflect an unfortunate truth: traffic rules the day and anything you can do to get more eyeballs on your web posts will make you successful. Of course, for those of us who actually have an understanding of Windows architecture and composition are, well, left scratching our heads.

This conversation is useful so thanks for starting it, Corona. Free speech has always been welcome on C9. Anything we can do to correct false information is good.

section31
OutOfCoffeeException

In reply to Charles

#Nov 14th, 2008 @ 10:53 AM

You are right Charls! This thread made me watch Marks interview about Windows 7 which is really good.
Windows 7 will be highly compatible with Vista in terms of driver and applications while it's more performant. But I think that's only possible because Vista introduced so many changes under the hood and did the dirty job for the next generation.
But still - I'm just wondering how many efforts are going into post NT kernel developement like Midori.

So thanks again, Corona

SlackmasterK
I write my OWN blogging engines

I prefer to think of Windows 7 as "What Vista should have been" rather than "with a new theme"... same basic meaning but implies functionality beyond the aesthetic, and sounds better in a ppt.

Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.

I've always thought that comparing Windows and Linux was like comparing Apples and Pairs.

Ultimately the only real difference between them is peoples preferences. So how do you convince people to switch?

Many in the Linux crowd are warming to the point of view you can't make people like something with negative messages, it has to be positive. Look no further than Obama & McCain campaigns for evidence of that.

So Corona the lesson here today is you can't change peoples mind by throwing stones at them.