http://mschnlnine.vo.llnwd.net/d1/Dev/App_Themes/C9/images/feedimage.pnghttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/UX/Lhttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/en-usTue, 13 Jan 2009 04:29:53 GMTTue, 13 Jan 2009 04:29:53 GMTEvNet (EvNet, Version=1.0.3599.6114, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null)Blah, I'm not a KDE user, you can't provoke me ;)<br><br>Yeah, I agree with you. There has been quite a pile of problems on KDE 4.0/4.1 releases. According to my experience KDE 4.2 is a much better release ...&nbsp; even usable :)<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=452948Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:29:53 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4529480http://channel9.msdn.com/452948/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Blah, I'm not a KDE user, you can't provoke me ;)Yeah, I agree with you. There has been quite a pile of problems on KDE 4.0/4.1 releases. According to my experience KDE 4.2 is a much better release ...&nbsp; even usable :)Erisan0http://channel9.msdn.com/452948/Trackback.aspxKDE4 is really getting pretty decent now. :) Maybe even usable ;)<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=452943Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:13:47 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4529430http://channel9.msdn.com/452943/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0KDE4 is really getting pretty decent now. :) Maybe even usable ;)Bass0http://channel9.msdn.com/452943/Trackback.aspxKDE developer took a critical look at upcoming (January 27) KDE 4.2<br> <br> <a href="http://adymo.blogspot.com/2009/01/kde4-review-from-inside-out-part-1.html">KDE 4.2 Review From Inside Out. Part 1</a><br> <a href="http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=839">About the new network manager of KDE 4.2</a><br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=452937Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:55:58 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4529370http://channel9.msdn.com/452937/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0KDE developer took a critical look at upcoming (January 27) KDE 4.2 KDE 4.2 Review From Inside Out. Part 1 About the new network manager of KDE 4.2Erisan0http://channel9.msdn.com/452937/Trackback.aspxthose are not transparent windows... they are Desktop "Widgets"<br>Microsoft still need to learn how to use desktop space<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=452545Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:43:38 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4525450http://channel9.msdn.com/452545/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0those are not transparent windows... they are Desktop "Widgets"Microsoft still need to learn how to use desktop spaceJo&#227;o Vitor P. Moraes0http://channel9.msdn.com/452545/Trackback.aspxBut that's not a bad improvement, imo, I think what the Windows desktop currently lacks is organization.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451635Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:23:32 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516350http://channel9.msdn.com/451635/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0But that's not a bad improvement, imo, I think what the Windows desktop currently lacks is organization.brian.shapiro0http://channel9.msdn.com/451635/Trackback.aspxIt sounds like folders that open on startup and where you place shortcuts. Useful perhaps, but still basically a kind of folder. But on the other hand, maybe these Plasmids really are a bit novel if they go beyond simple file viewing. Will have to check further...  /exithttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451634Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:18:32 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516340http://channel9.msdn.com/451634/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0It sounds like folders that open on startup and where you place shortcuts. Useful perhaps, but still basically a kind of folder. But on the other hand, maybe these Plasmids really are a bit novel if they go beyond simple file viewing. Will have to check further...  /exitBent Rasmussen0http://channel9.msdn.com/451634/Trackback.aspxI remember using Macs in the days of System 7 and before, and it was common practice to keep certain folders open in the Finder for quick access.<br><br>I think that's what plasmid folders are trying to revive, and I think its a good idea. I'm tired of the desktop being treated as a dumping ground for shortcuts.<br><br><br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451633Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:12:21 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516330http://channel9.msdn.com/451633/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I remember using Macs in the days of System 7 and before, and it was common practice to keep certain folders open in the Finder for quick access.I think that's what plasmid folders are trying to revive, and I think its a good idea. I'm tired of the desktop being treated as a dumping ground for shortcuts.brian.shapiro0http://channel9.msdn.com/451633/Trackback.aspxThe term "folder" is not bad, it's quite nice in fact.<br><div><br></div><div>I would like to be able to see files and folders as all folded items that can be unfolded - inlined into the context folder - all in a recursive photosynth style.</div><div><br></div><div>Imagine also "Oslo" integration where a folder is virtual and links into the Repository to objects and are in effect inlined and viewed as in "Quadrant". The application blends into the shell itself; able to unfold its own chrome as well and inline it into the context folder.</div><div><br></div><div>A uniform model-based UX such as "Avalon" will probably provide an even better foundation for this kind of experience, or a more integrated flexible foundation at least.</div><div><br></div><div>I think we're very used to fullscreen applications and now one application per monitor. Maybe we should be looking toward a more analog desktop experience.</div><div><br></div><div>I would also like the browser itself to move out of the page metaphor. To allow homepages to adapt to large workspaces and present more composite views. To maybe show "tabs" as layered, stacked and displaced sheets with Aero switching between them.</div><div><br></div><div>Surface Computing (Microsoft or not) is pointing in this direction, albeit with special hardware with a hefty price tag.</div><div><br></div><div>The notion of Plasmid widgets, composite or not, extended to entain a taskbar or not. Well I'm not sure I've gotten the big deal yet.</div>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451632Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:05:31 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516320http://channel9.msdn.com/451632/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0The term "folder" is not bad, it's quite nice in fact.I would like to be able to see files and folders as all folded items that can be unfolded - inlined into the context folder - all in a recursive photosynth style.Imagine also "Oslo" integration where a folder is virtual and links into the&#8230;Bent Rasmussen0http://channel9.msdn.com/451632/Trackback.aspxesoteric,<br><br>Why should the desktop even be a folder?<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451625Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:58:29 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516250http://channel9.msdn.com/451625/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0esoteric,Why should the desktop even be a folder?brian.shapiro0http://channel9.msdn.com/451625/Trackback.aspxRegardless of what it is, I don't see why the desktop should be that special compared to any other folder. In general one wants to project power via abstraction.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451623Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:37:12 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516230http://channel9.msdn.com/451623/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Regardless of what it is, I don't see why the desktop should be that special compared to any other folder. In general one wants to project power via abstraction.Bent Rasmussen0http://channel9.msdn.com/451623/Trackback.aspxThat's actually screen shots of KDE 4.1. KDE 4.1 refined the default taskbar look a lot (it looks more Vistaish then in KDE4.0 :))<br><br>KDE 4.2 refines the taskbar further, especially the system tray plasmoid, which as you can see in those screenshots is pretty rough.<br><br>I remember when Plasma was first announced, they said Plasma was a response to this idea that the Desktop just another folder, and they wanted to do away with that paradigm in KDE4. Unfortunately Plasma was probably one of the most incomplete things to ship with KDE4 when it first came out, but as of now it's very actively developed (even Google engineers are helping out).<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451617Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:49:18 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516170http://channel9.msdn.com/451617/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0That's actually screen shots of KDE 4.1. KDE 4.1 refined the default taskbar look a lot (it looks more Vistaish then in KDE4.0 :))KDE 4.2 refines the taskbar further, especially the system tray plasmoid, which as you can see in those screenshots is pretty rough.I remember when Plasma was first&#8230;Bass0http://channel9.msdn.com/451617/Trackback.aspxI'll admit the Taskbar and Start Menu look alot better in <A href="http://introducingkde4.blogspot.com/2008/11/plasma.html">these screenshots</A>. Is that KDE 4.2?<BR><BR>In the end it's probably best to think of those folder Plasmoid/Containments as a concession to backwards compatibility for people that like files and folders on their desktop with a bit of added flexibility to show other folders' contents. It looks like the KDE4 desktop is primarily a surface for displaying gadgets now. I think that's a good thing, but they may be at risk of going overboard on the gadgets and end up creating a redundant layer of window/app management (a web browser gadget?!?) for users to deal with.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451600Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:01:44 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4516000http://channel9.msdn.com/451600/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I'll admit the Taskbar and Start Menu look alot better in these screenshots. Is that KDE 4.2?In the end it's probably best to think of those folder Plasmoid/Containments as a concession to backwards compatibility for people that like files and folders on their desktop with a bit of added flexibility&#8230;DCMonkey0http://channel9.msdn.com/451600/Trackback.aspxPlasmids are like widgets but they aren't really just for simple apps and information like typically most things we consider widgets are. Like I said, even the taskbar is simply a plasmid, it can be removed an replaced with a different plasmid. They can be coded in C++ or Python natively, and there is Plasmid containers for Google Gadgets and I believe also Mac OS X Widgets. There is a lot more to Plasma then that though, but the software is pretty much very actively developed right now so it's changing a lot.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451585Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:12:54 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515850http://channel9.msdn.com/451585/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Plasmids are like widgets but they aren't really just for simple apps and information like typically most things we consider widgets are. Like I said, even the taskbar is simply a plasmid, it can be removed an replaced with a different plasmid. They can be coded in C++ or Python natively, and there&#8230;Bass0http://channel9.msdn.com/451585/Trackback.aspxI thought these Plasma containoids were actually folders. If they are widgets, then yes they are more static and then they quickly start to look like they're part of the background and burnt into it (maybe you'll even get some nice pixel burns).<div><br></div><div>It's a bit puzzling to me, why instead of these desktop quadrants we see in Linux desktops (projected onto spinning cubes, yawn), or fixed real-estate we see in Windows, why don't we have the equivalent of a map for the desktop so we can spread content across vast spaces and quickly navigate across open documents and so on [lazy loading?]. A bit like the idea of Photosynth actually.</div><div><br></div><div>Combine that with a nice little trackball on the mouse itself.</div>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451583Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:07:07 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515830http://channel9.msdn.com/451583/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0I thought these Plasma containoids were actually folders. If they are widgets, then yes they are more static and then they quickly start to look like they're part of the background and burnt into it (maybe you'll even get some nice pixel burns).It's a bit puzzling to me, why instead of these desktop&#8230;Bent Rasmussen0http://channel9.msdn.com/451583/Trackback.aspxYeah and I read on some sites that ever since Windows Vista, Windows is not worth it anymore.<br><br>Really if you want to base your criticism on something base it on something that isn't basically over a year old and basically a just foundational release that is already outdated. People who thought KDE 4.0 sucked, also think KDE 4.2 is the best thing since sliced bread.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451582Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:02:22 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515820http://channel9.msdn.com/451582/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Yeah and I read on some sites that ever since Windows Vista, Windows is not worth it anymore.Really if you want to base your criticism on something base it on something that isn't basically over a year old and basically a just foundational release that is already outdated. People who thought KDE 4.0&#8230;Bass0http://channel9.msdn.com/451582/Trackback.aspxFunny thing is, since they're actuallly meant to be relatively static areas on the desktop, the light borders are actually rather heavy in that case. As Brian pointed out, they probably shouldn't be visible at all.<BR><BR>Personally, I think they'd make more sense as customizable toolbars full of shortcuts to folders and apps and stuff. No titlebars and borders/background customizable from light to non-existent. Leave the actual folder locations to the file manager.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451580Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:52:09 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515800http://channel9.msdn.com/451580/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Funny thing is, since they're actuallly meant to be relatively static areas on the desktop, the light borders are actually rather heavy in that case. As Brian pointed out, they probably shouldn't be visible at all.Personally, I think they'd make more sense as customizable toolbars full of shortcuts&#8230;DCMonkey0http://channel9.msdn.com/451580/Trackback.aspxJesus... KDE4 is really not looking that good. I have heard from a lot of sides that KDE isn't worth it anymore. Sounds very understandable from that screenshot.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451575Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:45:29 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515750http://channel9.msdn.com/451575/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Jesus... KDE4 is really not looking that good. I have heard from a lot of sides that KDE isn't worth it anymore. Sounds very understandable from that screenshot.Christian Liensberger0http://channel9.msdn.com/451575/Trackback.aspxThere's something to be said for the gestalt laws of coherence. And you're quite right, that arrangement alone can be a visual indicator, you don't always need strong borders. Too many strong borders on the other hand adds more noise than is good. (A tautology isn't it? "too much" of anything is inherently "too much")http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451571Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:37:15 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515710http://channel9.msdn.com/451571/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0There's something to be said for the gestalt laws of coherence. And you're quite right, that arrangement alone can be a visual indicator, you don't always need strong borders. Too many strong borders on the other hand adds more noise than is good. (A tautology isn't it? "too much" of anything is inherently "too much")Bent Rasmussen0http://channel9.msdn.com/451571/Trackback.aspx<A href="http://www.channel9.ca/windowyuk.jpg" rel=lightbox><IMG src="http://www.channel9.ca/windowyuk.jpg"></A><BR><BR>&lt;ot&gt; this is just SO MUCH safer!&nbsp; and EASIER!&nbsp;&nbsp; I love to read!&nbsp; Especially when im trying to choose a URL - plus look at all the new options!&nbsp; :phttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451560Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:41:39 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515600http://channel9.msdn.com/451560/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0&lt;ot&gt; this is just SO MUCH safer!&nbsp; and EASIER!&nbsp;&nbsp; I love to read!&nbsp; Especially when im trying to choose a URL - plus look at all the new options!&nbsp; :pme0http://channel9.msdn.com/451560/Trackback.aspxWell as you wrote that screenshot is from KDE 4.0. There's tons of UI improvements on KDE 4.2. "Start menu" is changeable.<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451558Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:40:42 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515580http://channel9.msdn.com/451558/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Well as you wrote that screenshot is from KDE 4.0. There's tons of UI improvements on KDE 4.2. "Start menu" is changeable.Erisan0http://channel9.msdn.com/451558/Trackback.aspxAs was mentioned by me and others, those aren't windows. They're desktop gadgets <BR><BR><A href="http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/screenshots/dolphin-systemsettings-kickoff.jpg">This is what a windows looks like in KDE 4.0</A><BR><BR>Titlebars wih controls. Menu bar. Toolbar. Lots of wasted space to the right of both. Breadcrumb bar. <EM>No Up Button</EM>! Ridiculously large icons on the Places list. Like most KDE apps, it looks like something you'd generate from the KDE equivalent of the Visual Studio MFC app wizard. At least Dolphin has considerably toned down the festoonery of the Konquerer file manager mode.<BR><BR>Also:<BR><BR>How would you know which window is active if they weren't overlapping?<BR><BR>That "Start Menu" is hideously ugly IMHO. I don't know how well it works functionally (I hear not too well for many), but it looks like an application that has forgot to draw its border and titlebar. <BR>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451551Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:28:14 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515510http://channel9.msdn.com/451551/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0As was mentioned by me and others, those aren't windows. They're desktop gadgets This is what a windows looks like in KDE 4.0Titlebars wih controls. Menu bar. Toolbar. Lots of wasted space to the right of both. Breadcrumb bar. No Up Button! Ridiculously large icons on the Places list. Like most KDE&#8230;DCMonkey0http://channel9.msdn.com/451551/Trackback.aspx<P>Let's make up some facts about how the transparant windows were developed!</P>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451538Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:30:11 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515380http://channel9.msdn.com/451538/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Let's make up some facts about how the transparant windows were developed!Bas0http://channel9.msdn.com/451538/Trackback.aspxIf you put Plasma into edit mode or but your mouse over a Plasmid, a "chestnut" appears that allows you resize (and do a lot of other stuff) to the Plasmid.<br><br>In KDE everything on the desktop (including the wallpaper and taskbars) is Plasmids, so it affords a great deal of customization. You can even create your own Plasmids pretty easily, and I'm pretty sure Google widgets are native Plasmids.<br><br>I mostly use Gnome though. :)<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451536Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:26:05 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515360http://channel9.msdn.com/451536/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0If you put Plasma into edit mode or but your mouse over a Plasmid, a "chestnut" appears that allows you resize (and do a lot of other stuff) to the Plasmid.In KDE everything on the desktop (including the wallpaper and taskbars) is Plasmids, so it affords a great deal of customization. You can even&#8230;Bass0http://channel9.msdn.com/451536/Trackback.aspxGet a tablet PC or high-res touchscreen. See how usable 0 or 1 pixel borders are then.&nbsp; It's no good looking pretty if people can't actually <EM>use</EM> it.http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451530Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:16:49 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515300http://channel9.msdn.com/451530/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Get a tablet PC or high-res touchscreen. See how usable 0 or 1 pixel borders are then.&nbsp; It's no good looking pretty if people can't actually use it.AndyC0http://channel9.msdn.com/451530/Trackback.aspxJamie: clean transparent windows - with no bars and crap and useless info.&nbsp; Im assuming if you mouse over it - it would show the close icons (if not it should)<br><br>Window can be closed, resized and rotated (+ preferences button appears also). You can also change text color/size/shadow, icon size, filter files, etc.<br><br>You can create your own theme with using vector graphics (SVG).<br>http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=451525Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:51:06 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/451387-UXL/?CommentID=4515250http://channel9.msdn.com/451525/WebViewBug.aspx?EVT=0Jamie: clean transparent windows - with no bars and crap and useless info.&nbsp; Im assuming if you mouse over it - it would show the close icons (if not it should)Window can be closed, resized and rotated (+ preferences button appears also). You can also change text color/size/shadow, icon size,&#8230;Erisan0http://channel9.msdn.com/451525/Trackback.aspx