Windows 7 SKU's announced - MS learned nothing from Vista mess... | The Coffeehouse

OrigamiCar

Seems Microsoft have announced which different SKU's Windows 7 will have:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/

Looks like home basic is going to be only for emerging markets (good), but for crying out loud, STILL no remote desktop with the home skus??
So, once again, one of the main compelling reasons to have a Windows Home server in the house (the ability to remote into any desktop on the home network from outside) still falters because the home SKU's don't have the very thing that WHS needs to perform this function.. Most 'normal' users don't run the pro or ultimate SKU's of Vista/Win 7, they stick with the home OS that Dell puts on the machine.

Do MS's teams not talk to each other or something? Or is the WHS team going to address this?

littleguru
<3 Seattle

I think it got better. Starter and Home Basic are to forget. What's left is Home Premium, Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate. The only thing they shold have done is to put Professional and Enterprise together to Business.

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

At least the SKUs are supersets of each other now. And they're supposed to make the edition upgrade process easier.

But yeah, that's lame. I remember the same issue with those ill fated "Mira" wireless display pads; they were targeted at home use but required XP Pro. Stupid.

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

In reply to littleguru

#Feb 3rd @ 11:23 AM

But then you wouldn't have extra features to entice people into volume license aggreements.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

One comment on Engadget said it right:

I don't see why people complain about the different versions. The only version that consumers need to know about is Home Premium.

If you're the sort of person who needs the extra features in the Pro, Enterprise, or Ultimate versions, you're smart enough to understand the distinctions. Everyone else just needs Home Premium.

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

I agree with the sentiment littleguru posted, but yeah, the lack of remote desktop in HOME premium really makes a large part of HOME server useless.

OrigamiCar

In reply to littleguru

#Feb 3rd @ 11:27 AM

Sorry, just to be clear - my complaint is not that there's lots of versions - realistically, Dells of this world will offer only Home Premium on the home sku's with windows 7, unlike now where on some machines it's Home basic, some Home Premium and others have a choice.
I also do like how each SKU is a superset of the previous one.

My big complaint is that Home Premium does not come with Remote Desktop, which is absolutely unbelievable when you think that Windows Home Server is SPECIFICALLY aimed at home use, but one of its major features - remoting in to any desktop, isn't going to work with the home version of Win7, just like it doesn't work with Vista Home today.
So, to realise the full potential of Windows HOME server, you've got to use an OS that isn't the HOME version. Much as I dislike Apple, they wouldn't screw up this royally...
I just wish Microsoft groups would talk to each other more and think of the bigger picture.

Hopefully, as I say, the WHS guys will address this somehow - either with an update that gets Remote desktop working if you have WHS, or maybe the next version of WHS software will do something more amazing.

OrigamiCar

In reply to DCMonkey

#Feb 3rd @ 11:26 AM

Heh - I still have one of those Mira devices in my basement somewhere - bought it 90% off from Viewsonic after Microsoft announced they were dropping all support for them. loved it at the time and if I could find a way to upgrade the wireless to 802.11n, I'd prbably be using it still! Smiley

Great technology idea that was marred by the high cost at the time.

Dovella
Go Microsoft !!!!!!!

link

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

In reply to Dovella

#Feb 3rd @ 12:20 PM

I found something interesting through the related link on that page.

MS has been putting XP on Netbooks and charging OEMs less for it. Everyone's been wondering how much they will charge for Windows 7 when it ships on Netbooks and whether there will be a special Netbook Edition. Well, these SKUs don't mention such an edition, but I did see this:

"These engineering investments allow small notebook PCs to run any version of Windows 7, and allow customers complete flexibility to purchase a system which meets their needs. For OEMs that build lower-cost small notebook PCs, Windows 7 Starter will now be available in developed markets. For the most enhanced, full-functioning Windows experience on small notebook PCs, however, consumers will want to go with Windows 7 Home Premium, which lets you get the most out of your digital media and easily connect with other PCs."

To me, that says that you'll either be paying the full OEM price for Windows on a netbook (passed on to you by the OEM) or you'll be stuck with the crippled Starter edition.

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

In reply to DCMonkey

#Feb 3rd @ 12:47 PM

The link I referred to in my previous post (because c9 won't save my edit to that post)
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03NetbooksQA.mspx

PhreePhlyer
Chemicals for a Better Life!

>>So, once again, one of the main compelling reasons to have a Windows Home server in the house (the ability to remote into any desktop on the home network from outside) still falters because the home SKU's don't have the very thing that WHS needs to perform this function.<<

The home version have the RDP protocol, just not the front end. I can access my WHS server with Vista Home premium, now. I just use my browser and connect to my server.

I think MS did a great job with these differentiations. Basically there are only two choices for the consumer, Home or Pro. How easy is that? Vista was screwed-up in that Home Premium and Business were not sub-setted correctly, so if you got one, the other had missing elements. In essesance you were forced into Ultimate. Now, Ultimate won't be marketted and you will only see Home or Pro provided by the Dells and HPs of the world. Ultimate is basically a single user Enterprise and won't be needed by 95% of the market.

It appears MS has listened and made good choices in the SKUs.

OrigamiCar

In reply to PhreePhlyer

#Feb 3rd @ 5:05 PM

Hi PhreePhlyer

>>The home version have the RDP protocol, just not the front end.
>>I can access my WHS server with Vista Home premium, now. I just use my browser and connect to my server.

Has that changed recently? Last time I logged in from outside the network, the browser app would only allow me to connect to my machines that were running Vista Pro, not the Vista home machines. Is this something that powerpack 1 for WHS changed?

I upgraded my last Vista Home OS machine to Vista Ultimate a few months ago, so I can't check it out, but if WHS is allowing remote connections to Home SKU's via the WHS website, then that's great news!

cheong

I don't really understand the argument about WHS.

Sure, Home versions do not have RDP servers, but you can readily download and install RDP clients from download.microsoft.com , and actually I think the RDP client is also available in the system32 folder of WHS (like in Win2003), so what's the problem?

fknight

In reply to cheong

#Feb 3rd @ 5:36 PM

The Home editions do not have the Remote Desktop server component. This means that if your home computer is running Home Basic or Home Premium, you cannot control it remotely. There is no download that can be installed in Vista Home editions to enable this functionality.

Windows Home Server has functionality which allows you to connect to your Windows Home Server's web page from outside your home, and use it to remote control a computer that is in your home. If those computers are Home Basic or Home Premium, then this Windows Home Server feature is completely useless.

Yet both the Vista Home SKUs and Windows Home Server are targetted to the same users.

In other words, when they added the capability to WHS to act as a gateway to remote control your home computers, no one bothered to tell the WHS people that this won't work because the same users they are targetting with this product have an operating system completely incapable of hosting RDP sessions.

NitzWalsh

In reply to fknight

#Feb 3rd @ 5:55 PM

Anyone expecting one SKU was deluded, frankly. This is a good compromise - Ultimate is basically (well, it IS) Enterprise available at retail, that's all. A tiny percentage of users will need it, and I doubt you'll see it on most store shelves.

That leaves 2 - home premium and Professional, like XP but slightly better in that Pro has all the features of home (such as media center), which was a huge gripe with me. Home premium is rumoured to have image-based backup as well as mobility center now too which used to be only available in the business version. The other versions are for developing markets (basic) or one cheap mid devices and very low-end notebooks (starter) than you can't purchase off the shelf anyways, hopefully they won't force Starter on most netbooks as the beta of 7 Ultimate runs just fine on my 1 gig Acer. I think starter is mean to head off really low-end netbook devices that were looking at Android or the myriad of netbook-oriented Linux OS's or ones targetted to the notebooks for developing nations.

One item that I'd love to see on Home Premium though - PREVIOUS VERIONS. Come on MS, it's an awesome marketing avenue as well - no other OS has anything like it at the moment, and home users could easily take advantage of it. I've posted the advertising scenarios that could be done with it before, an ad showing a busy Mom working on a letter only to have junior sneak up behind her when she gets distracted and answers the phone, starts pounding on the keyboard and overwrites her long document with a bunch of garbage - OH NOES! Ah, previous versions to the rescue - bingo. Smiley

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

In reply to cheong

#Feb 3rd @ 5:36 PM

Sure, Home versions do not have RDP servers, but you can readily download and install RDP clients from download.microsoft.com , and actually I think the RDP client is also available in the system32 folder of WHS (like in Win2003), so what's the problem?

The problem is that you need the RDP server, not the client, to connect to a PC, which is a major component of WHS. If I set up my home environment with all Home SKU's and an expensive Windows Home Server, I can't use one of the components that were advertised. So I basically paid for something I can't use in the environment it was intended for.

That's the problem.

Anyway, I have no idea what the effects or requirements of installing RDP server are, but wouldn't it make sense if the home server connector software also acted as an RDP server? I mean, it's installed on all the clients anyway.

In other words, when they added the capability to WHS to act as a gateway to remote control your home computers, no one bothered to tell the WHS people that this won't work because the same users they are targetting with this product have an operating system completely incapable of hosting RDP sessions.

Actually, I and many others in the beta bothered to tell the WHS people that during the beta. Nothing was done with it. I don't even remember what the reply from the team was.

AndyC

I can't believe the fuss that is generating, the only difference to the Vista SKU's is that Media Center functionality has been added to "Business" and it's been renamed Professional.

But yes, still omiting Remote Desktop from Home Premium makes Windows Home Server look stupid. How about a little joined-up thinking Microsoft?

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

In reply to AndyC

#Feb 4th @ 2:07 AM

Same here. I really don't get the problem. If you're a home user, you use Home Premium. If you're knowledgable enough to need the things offered in professional, you're smart enough to figure out the difference between Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate.

CreamFilling512

It seems like there's really only two versions to be concerned about. Starter and Home Basic are for third world countries, Enterprise is volume-only, and Ultimate is going to be super rare 0.001% of sales. So that just leaves Home Premium and Professional.

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

In reply to CreamFilling512

#Feb 4th @ 3:16 AM

Notice the no mention of ultimate extras ....

I guess MS think bitlocker is worth an extra $20

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

Official Name	Real Name
Starter	Sleepy
Home Basic	Bashful
Home Premium	Sneezy
Professional	Doc
Enterprise	Grumpy
Ultimate	Dopey
Cracked, WGA bypassed	Happy

BlackTiger
If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.

How about just leave ONE version, call it "Ultimate" and finally replace "Ultimate" by "Windows 7"?

Still not getting that stupid "home", "basic", "shmasic", "home business", "professional home", "ultimate basic professional" etc... Total mess.

Now MS going to screw up even Win7... I hope that fired 5000 employees were from "marketing department"?

How many bloody "Mac OS X" editions we have? 10? "A Hundred"? "A Thousand"? "Even more?" Or just ONE?

PS:
BitLocker and any other "Ultimate Extra" worth actually literally... NOTHING! Zero! Zee-Ro!
I've even stopped to use Sidebar...

fknight

In reply to BlackTiger

#Feb 4th @ 8:16 AM

This reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask, maybe someone here has an answer. I don't know if it was my imagination or not, but when Vista came out, I thought I read nearly everywhere that all of the Vista media (the actual DVD in the box, regardless of SKU) was the same, and that the CD KEY on the side of the box based on the SKU told Windows setup what features should be unlocked.

I did the "Anytime Upgrade" the other day to go from Home Premium to Ultimate and I had to wait a week for the wrong CD (the ATU apparently doesn't deal with 64 bit media, and I had to call).

Did anyone else hear what I originally heard about the different editions or was that just a bunch of misinformation in tech media and blogs (which wouldn't really surprise me)?

wastingtimewithforums

In reply to fknight

#Feb 4th @ 8:48 AM

"when Vista came out, I thought I read nearly everywhere that all of the Vista media (the actual DVD in the box, regardless of SKU) was the same, and that the CD KEY on the side of the box based on the SKU told Windows setup what features should be unlocked."

That's right. And because of that, if you install Vista without a cd key, you must chose what version you want to install:

http://www.petri.co.il/install_windows_vista_without_supplying_the_product_key.htm

You need to enter a key after 14 days, though. All versions of Vista are on the DVD.

All vista dvd's are the same. The only difference are the 32 and 64 bit versions.