32/64 bit hybrid OS | The Coffeehouse

cheong

I talk with one of my colleague about the old days of 16-bit Windows. When we talk about that in Windows 3.0, you can supply command line switch to "win.com" to instruct it to start in real mode, standard mode (protected mode) or 386 Enhanced mode (virtual real mode).

After the conversation, I thought about why Microsoft doesn't release a OS favour that you can choose to boot into 32-bit or 64-bit mode in boot menu. Sure I can choose to dual boot 32 bit and 64 bit Windows (since it neither violates per-seat nor per-device rule, licensing shouldn't be matter), but it's really painful to have all the applications like MS Office or so on installed twice.

Most 32-bit applications can be run on both realm. 32-bit Windows application takes more memory to run in 64-bit Windows, so meanwhile I can run my daily activities in 32-bit side, then switch to 64-bit when I have some 64-bit binary to run.

Drivers shouldn't be an issue because of the seperation of sysnative and syswow64 folder. If we think about the old days when Vista, the first widely supported 64-bit Windows, is just released and most 64-bit drivers weren't quite stable, it'd also give the chance to users to switch back to 32-bit Windows for a while and wait for driver update when they have driver problems. The switch from 32 bit to 64 bit would be much smoother this way.

It's too late to bring this on, considering Windows 7 has released it's beta, and it's supposed to be the last Windows OS that have 32-bit version. Just curious that whether the decision makers in Microsoft had considered about this kind of idea.

Larry Osterman

Think about what such a beast would be. Since every OS binary and every driver is different, how would the "dual boot" system work?

What happens when you start seeing more and more 64 bit applications (they are coming - I believe that Adobe CS4 is x64 for instance)? Now you have 2 separate installations for the applications, one 32bit and one 64bit.

It gets messy really fast.

Why not install a 64bit OS and just run 32bit applications on it? I've been running that way on my main home machine for over a year and I've not yet found a piece of hardware that didn't have 64bit drivers available for it, including my 10 year old HP printer.

magicalclick

Why dual? 64bits already does 32bit apps with no problem. You only have to care about drivers, which are usually fine. Besides, it is about time to drop 32bits support anyway, which is why Win7 is the last home user OS shipped with 32bits version.

cheong

In reply to Larry Osterman

#Feb 12th @ 6:10 PM

> Think about what such a beast would be. Since every OS binary and every driver is different, how would the "dual boot" system work?
Emmm... the paths for 32-bit and 64-bit systems will seperate of course. For registry hives, perheps we can add something like HKLM64 or so. Then use filesystem redirector like machanism to make it select the right choice.

> What happens when you start seeing more and more 64 bit applications (they are coming - I believe that Adobe CS4 is x64 for instance)? Now you have 2 separate installations for the applications, one 32bit and one 64bit.
It seeks for 64-bit program files folder first, then seeks 32-bit one. If these are the same application, we have no reason to run 32-bit version in 64-bit environment, right? When boots to 32-bit, the redirector does not search for 64-bit "Program Files" folder.

So you can have both version installed and have the matching one running in the matching environment.

> Why not install a 64bit OS and just run 32bit applications on it? I've been running that way on my main home machine for over a year and I've not yet found a piece of hardware that didn't have 64bit drivers available for it, including my 10 year old HP printer.
Things get tricky if you have some old 16-bit Windows software *cough* games *cough* to run occasionally.

For the driver part, drivers are not always free. For example, the Dialogic modem card driver in my old company requires you to pay nearly as much as the card itself to get the updated driver from Intel (which bought Dialogic years ago). That's the reason why it was the only server not upgradable to Win2003.

Old hardware from companies that vanished do not get driver updates.

EDIT: I know my thought can be flawed, and afterall it's been late to say anything. I'm just interested in whether someone in Microsoft discussed about this possibility.

AndyC

In reply to cheong

#Feb 12th @ 8:12 PM

In essence this is what WOW64 is doing, albeit without unecessary rebooting and all the complexity that a dual-boot scenario would entail. It's really quite a different situation from Real/Protected mode Windows 3, since they were just different ways of presenting a 16-bit environment.

If you really want to run 16-bit games, there is always the option of Virtual PC running an older Windows OS. Not only is that more likely to be compatible, but it's not like any performance hit from virtualization is really going to matter at that point.

figuerres
???

why do that stuff when like 99.99% perhaps 100% of all new systems sold now are 64bit ready?
in fact if it were up to me win 7 would by default install as 64 bit on any hardware that was 64 bit ready, if you tried to load it on say a pentium II / III chip it would show a dialog / screen telling you it could install the version for old hardware ... not the exact wording ...

look at the Intel i7 cpu's that are now going to be the next standard for new systems - 8 core via 4 + 4 HT
memory is 3 channel so you install sets of 3 memory modules....
with hardware like that you are wasting time and money if you just run 32 bit and 3 gigs of ram.
heack even older P4 D cpu's are 64 bit ready.... think how old that is ....

and while WOW 16/32 32/64 do work thunking and switching always cost in perf somewhere.
and running a dual install like running dual boot can be a royal PIA somethimes... not something i would hand out to the masses of casual pc users...