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Comments: 39 | Views: 1349
littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle

Researchers at the University of St. Andrew in Scottland found a new way to create batteries that last 10 times longer than the current state-of-the-art batteries. That could be the break-through for electric cars!

A new type of air-fuelled battery could give up to ten times the energy storage of designs currently available. This step-change in capacity could pave the way for a new generation of electric cars, mobile phones and laptops...

http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/PressReleases/oxlithbattery.htm

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

What about charge times?

If it takes ten times as long to charge them, then it's not a step forward. If it would hold ten times the power and could be charged in a tenth of the time, then we would have a huge leap forward.

What they did now is essentially make a bigger battery, I agree is cool, but still not going to solve the problems the electric car is going to have.

Dr Herbie
Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

Charge times are not such an issue :  increased capacity means increased range for electric cars and that is the tipping point for a lot of people.  Refuelling is already moving to a 'just replace the whole battery at the charging station' model rather than a 'plug me into the mains and wait' model.

It's also a better environmental policy to have a 'rent the battery and replace when empty' model as the recycling of the battery is assured (as opposed to having piles of old betteries in the backs of people's garages).

What is needed is a battery standard (they've come up with a connector standard quickly enough, hopefully a battery standard wouldn't be out of the question).

Herbie

 

 

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

Rent a battery?

No thanks!

Batteries deteriorate with age, I don't think they solved this problem yet?

We need hydrogen! No need for a battery!

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

ZippyV
ZippyV
Fired Up

Creating hydrogen and converting it to electricity wastes more energy than storing electricity in a battery.

Bas
Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

Wouldn't renting batteries solve the problem of deterioration, because that way they'd keep moving around and eventually get replaced with newer ones, rather than having everybody keep the same battery for years?

stevo_
stevo_
Human after all

He just hates scottish people thats all, they cant possibly do science, surely their too busy being drunk?

rhm
rhm

Yeh, there's a lot of superstition about batteries, understandably, but if you're renting the battery, surely it's not your problem to worry about.

Shell (for example) owns all the batteries and when you're running low on charge you go to the Shell garage, they slot in a fully charged one and take the one that was in your car away, plug it into a rack and charge it back up.

The battery they give you has a guaranteed minimum charge. The computer in your car works out how much mileage you have left at any given time based on how much charge is left and how you are driving. If the charge runs out before the guaranteed minimum, they have a number you call and a Shell guy comes out with another battery to whereever you are and replaces it in the field. Seems fair. The cost of providing that cover (if insisted by law) gives the battery suppliers the necessary incentive to make sure their batteries are in good condition and it's not that difficult a system to administer, it requires no new technology and could be put in place tomorrow.

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

Gas is still the best option IMHO:

  • High concentration of energy for a limited amount of space
  • Ease of handling/transport
  • Ease of production
  • High energy preservation
Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

I don't expect so.

I think they will argue that a battery has a lifetime of x-years and they wont replace them until such a term is reached. And they wont replace them even if they are obviously faulty before that overstimated lifespan has been reached.

"Sir, I took out this battery at your charging station 100 miles ago and it's allready empty. I want a refund."

"Sorry Sir, you must have a heavy right foot."

But this battery for mobile devices would be AWESOME! I now have to replace my phone battery every day, can't wait to charge once every ten days!

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

So you have to agree on some sort of performance rule per battery.

That could work.

Then there is the environmental issue, can we guarantee that the production and recycling of all these batteries is enviromentally cleaner then the gas we are using right now? Otherwise, we could stop right now.

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon, electric cars I mean.

Fuel is just way to cheap still,. And our infrastructure is not yet ready for 2 million plus charging  batteries everyday in the Netherlands alone!

Nothing wrong with progress, but I see nothing wrong with the system in place today. OK OK maybe in smog ifested areas, but that's just moving the problem to somewhere else. The electricity still has to be generated and by that time, I wont be so cheap anymore Wink

PerfectPhase
PerfectPhase
"This is not war, this is pest control!" - Dalek to Cyberman

I want to know who's going to build all the power stations to run all these charging stations! 

10x faster charge ~= 10x the current required to charge.

People who deny the need for nuclear power in an age when everyone will be driving electrics cars has their head in the sand.

Your statement 10x faster charge ~= 10x the current required to charge is not true.

A lot of charge is lost in heat. Some batteries do not have this issue.

Batteries are a hot topic of research. In the labs I see more promise in bacteria based batteries than these inorganic batteries. It is a tricky problem. My department, as with many others, groups Chemical and Biomolecular engineering together. We will see what wins out from the labs.

Rent battery? So who do I sue when I rent a crappy battery that did't have enough charge than I paid for?

 

Dr Herbie
Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

It depends entirely on the model of the contract, but rhm's model above sounds plausable.

The idea that you 'rent' the materials of a product has been put forward as a way to ensure that the materials are recovered and recycled efficiently by encouraging ecologically intelligent design (http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm). Batteries for electric cars would fit this model well:  the battery suppliers would find it cheaper to recondition batteries than to build new ones from scratch. It would be cheaper still to ensure that the batteries can be efficiently recycled into new batteries from the start.

It's obvious that electric cars aren't going to replace petrol anytime soon, and they may get taken over by hydrogen fuel cell technology, but the work done on efficiency for electric cars can be applied to other appliances.

I like the idea that with both electric and fuel-cell cars the energy source can be decoupled from the engine. Yes, the energy might come from fossil fuelled power stations, but it could equally come from nuclear, hydro-electric, geothermal or wind powered sources. 

Herbie

 

ManipUni
ManipUni
Proving QQ for 5 years!

Forget electric cars, I'd say that better batteries are one of the top 5 more important technical advancement right now. Frankly they're the biggest hurdle for mobility and also one of the biggest hurdles for a lot of renewable energy as well, since they're often too inconsistent to be relied upon for power directly.

But that being said, it seems like every six months there is a new "HUGE breakthough! New battery promises 400x existing models!" But yet these products rarely hit the market. Plus the last batch of new technology in the battery department seems to have a worrying habbit of catching fire...

ultracapacitors are way cooler, amazing, there is even a bus route is Shangai that uses ultracapacitors

I don't really care the technology. I mean if I pay 50 miles of battery and end up going 10 miles, and I know the battery is at fault because my next battery is fine, who do I sue?

 

Dr Herbie
Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

I would assume that the charging stations would have a returns policy (they would have to take the mileage of the car when they fit the battery and the serial number of the battery I would guess). You return the faulty battery to the company's charging station and they refund your money plus more for you inconvenience (I like rmh's idea that they provide a pickup service).  The charging station would then take it up with the battery supplier\manufacturer (with whome it is assumed they you have a service level agreement).

Why do you assume you have to sue someone?  It's entirely possible to have these things set up in the legal contract of the purchase\rental.

 

Herbie

 

staceyw
staceyw
Before C# there was darkness...

@Harbie.  Agreed.  The "propane" model is where it almost has to go.  You don't drive 10 mile to wait and fill up your propane tank for your grill any more.  You go to your local gas station and grap a new filled tank (that is also reconditioned) and return your old tank - all in about a minute.  People are not going to wait hours to charge their batteries at a station.  Just does not scale.  The standardization thing will be important  - at least in form and connectors.  The guts can change as technology improves.  Maybe this will be the return of the full service gas attendant of the 50s and 60s to change batteries and also wash the windows.  Would put a lot people back to work Smiley

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