Posted By: Erisan | May 30th @ 1:21 AM
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Google Wave mashes communication, collaboration together :

"Google is looking to change the way we use the Internet to communicate with a new service that it calls Google Wave. Wave was previewed Thursday during the Google I/O conference as a way to combine e-mail, chat, photos, feeds from around the Web, and more in a collaborative environment. The project is not only cool-sounding, it's also quite ambitious, and Google hopes it will eventually replace some of our uses for e-mail."

"Wave also makes use of the Google Wave Federation Protocol, allowing developers to create self-hosted instances of Wave that can communicate with each other over an open protocol without depending on Google's servers."

Google Wave

Google Wave protocol

giovanni
giovanni
...

This is interesting: united communications for the cluod done well.

rhm
rhm

I just watched the whole thing (one hour 20!). I'd read some negative comments about Wave on twitter (particularly Jeff Atwood's notorious one about how this was "the most Microsoft like thing Google has done, and I don't mean that as a compliment"), but having watched the presentation, I think those people must have been watching a different presentation. I started watching it thinking that it was going to be another 'meh' thing from Google, but I've come away thinking I have seen the future of internet communication.

Some takeaways:

  • It's more interactive than current IM systems.
  • It has message permanence like email.
  • It has change tracking and playback like Word.
  • It integrates into blogs and social networks pretty seamlessly.
  • It has an apparently very flexible plugin API that allows you to leverage the real-time synchronization of the Wave platform by just supplying it with XML.
  • It has some really impressive functions already built using this plugin API, including a spell checker that makes me wonder why none of my desktop apps have something that powerful when this web app has it.
  • Google (apparently) want these protocols to be the successor to email as well as current IM systems. To that extent they have designed it so that everything works across servers, anyone can set up a server, the protocols are all open *and* they are open-sourcing the software.
I'd like to see the reaction of Ray Ozzie if anyone dares to show him this. His whole career has been about collaboration applications and synchronization and now Google have come along and made something that frankly pisses all over everyone else's efforts, including Microsoft. Wave makes Exchange server and MSN Messenger and all the Live services look really stale. 
Don't feel bad though. Consider Twitter. They can barely keep their system running and that offers less functionality than just about anything you care to mention. It wasn't mentioned in the presentation, but if Wave has a way of letting users publish waves to the world (rather than being solely a private communications tool), then you can say goodbye to Twitter, and Friendfeed for that matter.
Overall I'd say that Wave is technically brilliant and also that they've gone about it in the "right way" - i.e. it's not just open in the sense that it has an API, it's open in the sense that it would survive Google going out of business. It's actually reminiscent of old-school internet systems like IRC and Usenet in that respect, unlike the endless stream of .com/Web2.0 services that want to 'own' users to drive traffic to their sites.

rhm
rhm

btw. note the audience reaction. That's what spontaneous applause sounds like the audience is genuinely impressed with what you're presenting. Contrast that with the embarrassingly forced applause extracted from the PDC audiences with awkward silences.

Having said that, they did milk it a bit at the end, but still, it didn't make me cringe like some of the PDC videos I watched.

blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo

What on earth does this have to do with "the cloud"? Unless you mean the interweb is the cloud.

blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo

Of course I'm paranoid. Hmm, so google already can track you all over the web on any doubleclick site or adsense site, and is then using that to serve contextual adverts to you. They scan your emails, and know who you are there. They host your blog. And now they want your twitter and social networking information as well...

Google are very good at using just enough geek appeal to hide the fact that it's just another way to get information about you to sell onto advertisers.

I agree with everything rhm said. I'd say if I was in the audience, at the end I'd probably have probably gave them a standing ovation.

A lot of people also argue this is nothing "new" but just a good combination of XMLHttpRequest and DHTML which to a large degree is true, but you can't dismiss new ideas on the basis they're based on existing ideas. The movie "A spark of genius" illustrates this very well.

The fact that any number of users and bots (the cornerstone of this platform) could contribute and edit the same document live is pretty incredible.

leeappdalecom
leeappdalecom
.nettter

I havn't looked at the video just read a few things about it but remember Microsoft have live communication server and stuff like that, just don't compare this to live messenger alone.  They have a better collabortation story for the enterprise but anyway, need to look more into wave and see what it's all about.

When I first saw the screenshots of Wave and read some brief overviews, I too dismissed it for some mashup of Gmail and Google Docs. It's really something that can be better understood in a video demo.

rhm
rhm

If you use a non-Google hub and communicate with other people who are doing likewise, none of the messages ever get routed to Googles servers. That's what I mean about doing it the right way. It even does this to the extent that if you have a wave that involves people from several networks including Google, but someone not on a Google server sends a private reply to someone else who's on their network or on another non-Google network, just that tiny part of the reply is kept off Google's servers.

 

I don't think the importance of this point can be over-emphasized. There are many reasons why businesses haven't gone for hosted apps in a big way, but a large part of it is privacy. There might be tons of tools they'd like to use out there (another one Wave will nuke from orbit it 37 Signals's Campfire and Basecamp products), but they want to host it themselves. And usually when a solution is available for self-hosting, you then lose the ability to interact with users outside your own network because all these hot Web 2.0 developers aren't smart enough to cook up server federation protocols.

giovanni
giovanni
...

I thought that the servers powering this would be hosted by google, so yes, the interwebs or the internets as some like to call it.

Minh
Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

Hey, imagine replacing the C9 forum software w/ Google Wave... Maybe then you can actually italicize your text at long last haha

Watched the first 20 minutes. Why are people getting so excited over a chat room mixed with a bulletin board? Sure there are some nice features, like the live update and the drag-and-drop support, but I really don't see how this is providing something new.

rhm
rhm

Maybe you should have watched the whole thing then. Duh.

blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo

So if I store my data in a SQL server hosted by a single ISP, that's in the cloud? Errr, no.

If for you the cloud means the internet then yes, your data is in the cloud.

Minh
Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

No, I think blowdart means a data center here... In this case, no, Wave isn't cloud...

 

blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo

So not content with trying to redefine the history of netscape now you're redefining cloud wrt cloud computing? Nice.

littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle

Well... it's not exactly true that people gave applause just because they liked it. I recall several times when they asked the audience to give applause ("we can deal with applause", they said).

Second I had to laugh when they said at the beginning: this is all done in the browser. Don't forget that because it looks like a real app. I have enough of hearing that over and over again. For god's sake: we are in 2009. If you do it in the browser it should feel like something usable. Otherwise don't do it there! That's like begging for mercy.

Third: if someone else would have done stuff like that in a Windows/OSX/Linux application you wouldn't get the applause. Stuff like what's seen in Wave is granted as standard on the desktop. Also, the old Microsoft Chat, from 1998 or whenever that was, had live preview of what people typed. You could also check a box to disable that feature...

But, you know, it's done in the browser. Wink

littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle

Another weird thing is that they want to add drag and drop of images into the browser into the HTML 5 standard, just because they need it in Wave. The weird thing is that for such a application specific feature you need to alter a standard...

littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle

On the other hand the combination of the ideas is nice. It's like using a lot of well-known features/ideas and combine them so that you get something out that is a nice improvement Smiley

rhm
rhm

OOhh, very Microsoft company-man response Smiley

Seriously though, there's nothing on the desktop or web that's as well thought out as Wave. I hear a lot of people saying things like "feature X,Y and Z are nice, I guess, but I don't see what the big deal is about" or "X had feature Y so it's not really innovative".

This to me is like people saying when DVD was released "oh, it's got a better picture and commentary tracks and doesn't wear out and you can skip about and it takes up less space, but I don't see what the big fuss is about when  I can already watch movies on VHS. Besides, Laserdisc already had stuff like commentary tracks and chapters". That would sound pretty dumb in retrospect and all this Wave naysaying is going to sound really dumb when it is the main protocol for communication online in a few years.

giovanni
giovanni
...

Ok. I thinkI should correct my statement then: unified communication for everyone, no server required.

littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle

This was not a Microsoft-man response. It's more a student kind of answer. It's kind of depressing that stuff like this is sold as THE innovation. You get so much other stuff going that is way more innovative. And that's stuff coming from small companies, big companies, researchers (like google research, MIT, taiwanese universities, and all other kind of universities, just to mention a few) and a lot of other sources. You see there people using (and inventing) innovative algorithms and applying mathematical methods in a way that really is innvovative.

Then on the other hand you watch a 1 hours and 20 minute long presentation about something that could have been shown in less and uses again the AJAX + some dynamic HTML and wants to alter the HTML 5 standard (because of a feature that is required for this app). And then, in the beginning, they tell you that web applications usually look crappy but they made it look like a normal application.

I dunno...

It might be that there's a lot of innovation underneath and it would be very nice if someone could point out some reading material about that. Smiley

But as said in my previous post: "On the other hand the combination of the ideas is nice. It's like using a lot of well-known features/ideas and combine them so that you get something out that is a nice improvement".

littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle

My question probably is: why is Wave innovation?

Maybe I'm leaning too much onto the tech side. I should probably focus more on the interaction side to see the innovation... could that be?

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