Comment Feed for Studying or Working ? (Coffeehouse on Channel 9)

Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

Scott — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:48:03 GMT

Totally agree, vesuvius. I work to live, not live to work. If anyone's in south-central PA, my band is playing on July 17th.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

W3bbo — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:45:55 GMT

So it seems.

Although I'm not sure what "Maintenance" was, I assumed it was cash you had to pay to the university because they say so, but part of me tells me it's just "estimated living costs for a year", but then why is it so precise?

EDIT: Okay, I'm an idiot and failed to read all the documentation. Tuition fees are £3390 + £2184 = £5574, the other costs are all estimated living costs and not paid directly to the university.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

ManipUni — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:34:09 GMT

Ouch 15k for a one year course? ...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

W3bbo — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:10:48 GMT

Sort-of, it depends on the institution. When I was doing some research into postgrad courses in CS a few of the PhD programs I saw issued MPhils to the students who completed at least 2 years but didn't finish the final year, this was on top any MSc they earned before starting their PhD programme.

Interesting is how Cambridge offers an MPhil instead of an MSc in CS, but it's only a single-year course.... and will cost me at least £15,000 in tuition fees if I get in. Which means I really can't afford to get into debt in my undergrad years.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

AndyC — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:43:10 GMT

No, an MPhil is a failed PhD in a pretend subject.

;)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

W3bbo — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:05:11 GMT

"It's also worth remembering that employers who base their promotions solely on the "type of degree" a person has are also liable to have the old-school academia opinion that a Masters degree is just for someone who failed a PhD."

No, that's an MPhil ;)

Re: Re: Studying or Working ?

CKurt — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:49:05 GMT

Nice ;-) A also have a few subject I don't need to take, but it is not enough to do it in one year because of an intership of 4 months and the thesis.

Re: Studying or Working ?

Christian Liensberger — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:12:10 GMT

I did my master degree. And I don't regret it. It's a great experience: a lot of people drop out after the bachelor and you are in smaller classes in the master, which is really nice! :) You should go for a master if you find one that you like.

Btw. I did some of the lessions for my master during the bachelor time. Therefore it officially took me only one year to do the whole master, including master thesis :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

CKurt — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:49:19 GMT

I do a lot of volentier work allready. I've been meantaining a site for a belgian youth movement with over 60.000 members and am trying to meanting there computers in the offices to. I love it and have really learned a lot from it, although most is in website's en not in networks. I have had the Cisco cource and would love to learn more about networks.

For this summer I was looking for a summer job and would have LOVED to work in something to do with IT, but it was very hard to find so i ended up working in a supermarket :( Damn shame. Maybe Microsoft has a summer-job for me? :P

I do feel I have much more to learn and I will learn it while getting my masters, so I will probebly study 2 more years.

Re: Studying or Working ?

JonathonW — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:06:35 GMT

Since I just graduated (with a BSc) in May, I was asking the same question a few months ago. I ended up deciding to go the graduate school route, but here are a few points:

* I'm not paying my way through another four years of schooling. I have a research assistantship which pays my tuition and pays my bills (nowhere near the salary of a full-time job, but once you take into account the cost of tuition, it's not that bad of a deal). If you have to go over your head in debt to continue your schooling, it's not worth it (professors at the university where I did my undergraduate work say it's not worth it at all if you're not being paid-- any graduate program that really wants you will pay you for your work.

* My ultimate goal is to work in industry research-- my ideal career would be working with a group like Microsoft Research, where I'm on the forefront of new technology and new concepts in computer science. These are positions you don't get into without an advanced degree-- if your professional goals don't lead you in that direction, you may find you're overqualified for some of the positions you might have been interested in.

Re: Studying or Working ?

me — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:40:53 GMT

1. who do you know ( the world is nepotism - chose a relative or friend with great connections - then study that )

2. How do you carry yourself? If you act like a leader - you will be one. if your the quiet type - go to school

3. will you sacrifice pay - for experience - if so - there is hope without nepotism. work 24 hrs a day to impress - but hopefully at a company that will last beyond next week (harder to tell these days i know)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

ManipUni — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:52:25 GMT

That's true. The economy sucks butt right now. There are even IT people unemployed because so many big companies have gone entirely bankrupt.

You really should keep an eye out for ANY work experience you can gain while at school though. Trust me, it will be worth its weight in gold after you graduate. Even if that work experience is volunteering or part tme, it all counts.

Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

Bass — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:38:48 GMT

I say go for it if you can. IMO there is a lot of very profitable companies taking advantage of the "bad economic" situation and paying crap starting salaries these days. While it's likely you'll find a job, it will be easy for a company to take advantage of this "bad economy" crap and pay a subpar salary especially considering you are a new grad. And hey if the economy still sucks you can always stay until Ph.D. :)

Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

AndyC — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:40:21 GMT

ManipUni said:
In fact if you read any master's prospectus they almost always say you can earn the cost of a master's back in just a few years.

And you don't think that maybe, just maybe, they have something of a vested interest in convincing you that staying in Uni and paying them for a few more years might be a good idea?

I'm a firm believer that the only reason to stay in further education is because you want to learn more. If you're only in it because you think it might lead to more money down the line, you'll never truly be commited to it and thus you won't ever really make the most of it. 2 years of work experience can be better for you than an MSc, if that is an environment you thrive in.

It's also worth remembering that employers who base their promotions solely on the "type of degree" a person has are also liable to have the old-school academia opinion that a Masters degree is just for someone who failed a PhD.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

CKurt — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:16:31 GMT

Yes, my parents are really nice and i enjoy the being "taken care of". Altought it's not all sunshine ;-)

Re: Studing or Working ?

JohnAskew — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:13:41 GMT

Studing is my work, but I spell it with two d's. ;)

Congratulations, I say you live at home and demand as many free meals served and as much free laundry folded as those who may do so for free will do.

Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

CKurt — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:02:08 GMT

Have been in Finland for 4 months making my thesis and really enjoyed it. It was living! But you do need to have some future vision, i like to set goals for myself.

Re: Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

Lee Dale — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:01:54 GMT

I think its astonishing people have the mindset that you have to spend your whole life doing the same thing!

You can have it all you know, enjoyment in your work, money to do the things you want in life, constant education and learning and time to spend with friends and family. Its just up to you to work out a way to get it.

Personally I don't want to be doing IT for the rest of my life, I will always be involved in technology but doing one thing all your life seems a waste.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

vesuvius — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:59:51 GMT

School, work, school, work...they are both wearisome!

Take walks in the park, travel, play an instrument, include some debauchery, but most importantly live!

School and work are boring, don't plan your life around them.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

CKurt — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:59:31 GMT

In belgium school is "cheep enough" so you can pay it with a reseneble salary and you get grants from the goverment. Also companies might want to pay for "evening education" or additional education in a certain field. But not for a Masters Degree, they would just hire somebody with a masters.

PS: economy is not that bad, some bussinesse allready called me personally to offer me a job.

Re: Studing or Working ?

Scott — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:56:40 GMT

I don't know what it's like over there, but over here lots of companies have tuition reimbursement programs. That way you can gain work experience and earn credits towards your master's degree.

Personally, I was sick of school by the time I graduated, so I went straight to work.

But with the economy the way it is now, it might be smarter to stay in school until things turn around.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

vesuvius — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:53:41 GMT

Need I repeat myself, 35 years with academia or 45 years without? The people that have "made it" without academia are doubtlessly talented, but you cannot just spend life at work, worring about sponduliks. A rich mind is incomparable to a fat wallet.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

CKurt — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:52:59 GMT

Thank everybody for the advice. I'm very lucky and my parrents are willing to pay the 2 more years of education. I graduated from the Belgian KHBO (www.khbo.be).

It's "Master of Science in IT" a would have. Knowing that "knowledge" is THE key in IT, never stop learning the new technologies. I'm not sure if "wealth" is what i need, but i want a decent pay offcource. I would rather have a managment job with a few people working for me , then making a lot of money but not having any influence.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

ManipUni — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:49:00 GMT

A lot of research I've seen has Master's Graduates earning an average higher income than their non-graduate counterparts. In fact if you read any master's prospectus they almost always say you can earn the cost of a master's back in just a few years.

I myself won't start a masters until I figure out what I want to do with my life (so I might be dead long before I go back!). Plus it looks better to employers if you work for a while and then go back since you can suggest that you're interested in constantly improving as opposed to just getting on the easy train.

Re: Re: Studing or Working ?

vesuvius — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:48:17 GMT

This is a circular question.

It is circular, because I cannot decide for you what to do, and what I choose, you may find that you don't like. That is life in a nutshell. I would "suggest" you continue your studies and get a masters, and enjoy time at home with family because 45 years of programming is linear (appoximately your working life now) and you may as well work 43 and have another trick up your sleeve. Enjoy life as a student, you will never get the time to be as focussed with a fresh mind to boot.