What the hell Microsoft, hate PC gaming? | The Coffeehouse

intelman

http://kotaku.com/5315022/pc-version-of-alan-wake-is-up-to-microsoft

http://www.bing.com/search?q=alan+wake&go=&form=QBLH&qs=n

Am I going to hear the disbandment of the direct x team next? Alan Wake was going to be beautiful in DX 10. Why alienate PC gamers? PC gaming is a huge advantage that PC users get over competitors, but that may all disappear.

"Then again, after Halo and Gears of War, PC users are getting used to this kind of treatment from Microsoft."

This is pretty much what we can expect.

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=795260&view=findpost&p=591277838

aL_
Rx ftw

agreed.. dont they understand that the major advantage of windows is gaming? why does games for windows/live suck so hard?

this though should pwn steam, but its basically just annoying drm and an unruly achivment tracker..

games for windows live should be like the xbox dashboard! microsoft marketing monkeys are pissing away another market Sad

intelman

In reply to aL_

#Jul 15th @ 10:38 AM

I think they forgot.

magicalclick

Sorry, I couldn't relate the article to your claim. I do know with DX11, Win7 will be so much supperior than X360 and there won't be a new Xbox any time soon. So, Win7 will be the most advanced gamming platform for a quite long while.

Ion Todirel
buuu

var currentEmployer = Niner.WorksFor;

Niner.WorksFor = null;

Alan Wake is probably one of the most insignifiant games ever, who cares... Also note, Games and Windows are in different divisions, each having it's own objectives, which sometimes are not intersected. Buy an xbox, problem solved Smiley

Niner.WorksFor = currentEmployer;

intelman

In reply to Ion Todirel

#Jul 15th @ 8:42 PM

I sold mine after the 5th red ring. Two of which happened during winter breaks and "near blizzard" conditions, the only times I would truly have time to play like mad, no university obligations. Then bluescreen. During the one time I did have my xbox during that time Live was having trouble handling the load of users http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/22/xbox-live-suffering-from-major-outage-on-christmas-weekend-ouc/

It seemed to last close to a week. The weekend was bad, couldn't play at all. During the end of the week it just took a while to find a match.

The Xbox experience for me has been horrible. I know for others it is not the case, but the fact remains I've called tech support and shipped out more xboxes than I should have.

I will give Microsoft this. It was a good decision to extend the warranty. I had no problems actually getting the system replaced. My only complaint in the whole process is it took 2 weeks to get my Xbox replaced.

http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/259359-Red-ring-of-death-any-official-cause/

littleguru
<3 Seattle

In reply to intelman

#Jul 20th @ 7:29 AM

I could argue that gaming on the PC is not so interesting because 90% of the games are pirated anyway... The Xbox, and consoles in general, are a more controlled environment, where you are sure that the developers, who made the game also get their salary at the end of the month.

I can't tell you how often games on PC didn't succeed comercially but everyone had them... am I alone with seeing that?

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

In reply to littleguru

#Jul 20th @ 9:52 AM

Whilst copyright infringement is more widespread on the PC platform it isn't as bad as you make it out to be, and companies still turn a nice profit making PC-only games (e.g. RTS games), but with the Xbox 360's development environment being so similar to the PC the developers figure it's worth expanding out to that console.

intelman

In reply to littleguru

#Jul 20th @ 9:52 AM

People buy good games. Look at number of populated servers for COD 4 and Cod WaW Team Fortress 2 Battlefield Series of games , supreme commander ...etc.

I think piracy will catch up to the xbox. A lot of of people I know have Xbox 1s with 500GB hard drives filled with games. Quite a few less that have pirated games on their 360, but there are a few who do.

But piracy aside, PC gaming is still fun. FPS games feel so much more fluid. Plus I do not get BSODs or RRODs on my PC. 360 experience really put me off that platform.

Kind of messed up my gaming relationships. Friends finally started getting gaming PCs this spring. They are still dual platform gamers. I am slowly working to ween them off. It also helps that "Halo" has been dubbed "gaylo" due to ODST selling for another 60 bucks for not much more. Though it seems to be appealing because of some "Major League Gaming" thing. I really have no idea, all I hear about is MLG this MLG that.

As consoles become more and more functinal, they becomre more and more like a PC. Consoles just need the ability to install applications (PS3 has some capability in that respect, but not in the way that users would make sense of). The 360 also needs keyboard and mouse support in addition to a proper web browser.

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

In reply to intelman

#Jul 20th @ 10:20 AM

Piracy might exist on the consoles, but it won't scale. They don't appear in numbers that would scare Microsoft because modding your xbox (not so hard) or your 360 (very hard) is still a one-off thing. Can't mass produce it.

Xbox 360's development environment being so similar to the PC the developers figure it's worth expanding out to that console.

Valve is the only developer that I know who release PC before Xbox. Because profit on the Xbox is much more lucrative, it just makes sense to prioritize that. Also, whatever the potential piracy on the PC is... publishers are afraid that releasing PC first would 1) cut sales on the console, and 2) cut sales on the console.

The 360 also needs keyboard and mouse support in addition to a proper web browser.

The 360 probably will have KB & mouse eventually, but I'm sure MS will disuade devs from writing game that would give the KB & mouse an advantage. I don't know about the browser, though... It would open up a hole in the "ecosystem." The same reason why Flash doesn't work on the iPhone/iPod touch

stevo_
Human after all

Alan wake is duff, they designed a game in what 2005? showing something good, took 5 years to release what will be.. averageville usa..

So much hate for msregarding their game studio actions.. seems anytime a game fails now is the fault of ms.. aparently gta iv was a complete failure because games for windows live.. not at all because you needed a quad core and king kongs graphics card to run it anything like the 360 version..

Also, why would dx be axed given the 360 is .. basically windows .. running dx9.. or at least a variant of it.

LeoDavidson

In reply to intelman

#Jul 20th @ 10:20 AM

Plus I do not get BSODs or RRODs on my PC

I just got around to playing/finishing Stalker: SOC, Crysis and Crysis: Warhead... All old enough games (2007, 2007 & 2008) that they've have had time to be patched and where driver makers have had time to fix issues relating to them... All three still managed to hard-lock my PC every so often (and do weird things or crash to the desktop fairly often). Smiley All three were still great games and I'm glad I played them but I'd never say PC gaming was less crash-prone than console gaming... not in a million years.

Console games do crash as well, of course, and with a 360 you might get an RROD every couple of years (or couple of months if you're really unlucky).

stevo_ wrote:

Alan wake is duff, they designed a game in what 2005? showing something good, took 5 years to release what will be.. averageville usa..

How can you be writing off Alan Wake already? There hasn't been much of it revealed yet and people still seem to think positively about it. People loved Max Payne, after all. I liked Max Payne but didn't love it, FWIW. Still haven't seen any reason to think that Alan Wake is duff. Long dev periods aren't an indicator of much in the games industry; plenty of great games took years to be finished, as did several flops.

Edit: Regarding the subject of the root post: People are pissed off because Microsoft claimed to be putting weight behind Gaming for Windows and gave it some good lip service, but they're still releasing so many games as 360 exclusives. I don't blame them for deciding to do that -- and most of the time I'd rather play a console version anyway -- but it doesn't seem consistent with what they said they were going to do.

intelman

In reply to LeoDavidson

#Jul 20th @ 12:26 PM

If a game can truly hardlock a PC that is not good for sure. I have had separate driver issues when Vista was first released, but since then I have never really had issues with anything on the PC. BSOD free since Windows 98 I believe.

At least hardlocks and BSODs are easily recovered from. RROD takes at least 2 weeks.

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

In reply to LeoDavidson

#Jul 20th @ 12:26 PM

People are pissed off because Microsoft claimed to be putting weight behind Gaming for Windows and gave it some good lip service, but they're still releasing so many games as 360 exclusives. I don't blame them for deciding to do that -- and most of the time I'd rather play a console version anyway -- but it doesn't seem consistent with what they said they were going to do.

Are you referring to the "Games for Windows" program? Where there are Xbox LIVE integration like avatar, achievements? etc?...

I think that program hasn't taken off, not because of MS, but because of the developers... IE, MS actually charges game developers to be part of the LIVE service... which essentially is a user ID / match making / achievement tracking database...

PC devs have been managing their own of those since the beginning, and when MS wanted to charge them, it just doesn't make sense.

AndyC

Given that the entire Windows UI sits on top of DX, it's hardly likely to be abandoned any time soon.

As to Alan Wake (whatever that may be), nobody really knows what discussions may be happening behind closed doors. It may well be that the publishers (who just happen to be Microsoft) took a look at the state of development, decided the PC version was way below standard and needs a lot longer to bake. Or, as others said, it may be an effort to rea the biggest reward by pushing the higher profit console versions first.

LeoDavidson

In reply to Minh

#Jul 20th @ 1:14 PM

Sort of... As an example, take a statement like this from six months ago (bold emphasis is mine):

Moving ahead, Microsoft will continue to invest in Windows as a first-class gaming platform through great Windows out of box experiences, our online gaming services including Games for Windows - LIVE, MSN Games, and Messenger games, and through new games for Windows developed by Microsoft Games Studios.

It doesn't really feel like that's happening when MS keep choosing to publish nearly all of their games for the 360 only. (Not just talking about Alan Wake here.)

Compare the 2008/2009 releases for PC and 360:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios#Games_released_under_the_MGS_brand

I don't know how complete that is but it lists zero 2008/2009 MGS releases for the PC and only two potential future releases, one of which is Alan Wake (which we just discovered may not get a PC release at all) and the other being Train Simulator. On the other hand, there are twelve listed games released in 2008/2009 and another six penciled for 2009/2010.

I don't blame any publisher or developer for concentrating on consoles and I don't personally care which platform games get released on (because I've got almost all of the platforms). Just saying that I think some PC gamers are pissed off because the actions of MGS contradict their promises.

(As an aside, something I really hate is people complaining about series moving from PC to console when no promise was ever made that they wouldn't. e.g. Fans of GTA on the PC talk about being betrayed... What a lof of rubbish. The developers of GTA don't owe anyone anything; they make a product, aimed at a market, and people either buy it or they don't. By buying one product you don't become entitled to any future iteration of that franchise. I often make fun of people who feel otherwise by saying that DMA Design (the GTA developers before they renamed) sold out by leaving the Amiga and id Software sold out by making games that don't run on CGA graphics cards. Smiley )

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

In reply to LeoDavidson

#Jul 20th @ 2:33 PM

Yeah, I can see that MS has curbed their PC game strategy BIG time. MS only makes money if the game plays in LIVE, so they can charge for it.

I don't think MS cares that Windows games bring values to Windows... That's not a plus for Windows anymore...

With the recent cuts in MS Game Studios developers, the trend of not having Windows games will continue...

I mean, those newly freed devs can always write PC games, but 360 is a much more lucrative market... And I'm sure MS knows that, so they can cut those devs without fearing losing support for the 360...

Although, I have to say... the supply is kinda dry recently hasn't it?

Maybe they're saving the good stuff for when we're coming out of the recession?

magicalclick

About piracy, console is harder, but, I am sure right now it is only a matter of turn on the mod chip and turn it off when on Live. At least on Live, console gamers are required to play with legal copy of the game. Which is more attractive to developers. On the other hand, PC switched to MMO games since you can't pirate MMO games at all.

Is PC gamming dead? Not really. In Asia (except Japan), PC gaming is still really big. Anyway, they are mostly switched to MMO because the "micro transaction" is more attractive to comsumers (cheaper startup, not much commitment). Also the price is not dropped as fast as offline games with growing community. More like MySpace or Facebook Fever.

In US, I can see the switching too. For big non-MMO franchise, they have to move to console. Not only Xbox and PC is almost the same for developer, but non-MMO games are more profitable on Xbox platform with consitant Hardware/Perforamce/Live/Rental Experience.

Anyway, I am sure MS still values gaming on Windows greatly. Xbox is using Windows DriectX, if Windows fails, DirectX fails, Xbox fails. It may not be as dramatic, but, each success is build upon the other. I hope the new DX11 game give more life to Windows Gaming. Not only developer has many years of HLSL experience already, Win7 pretty set for pushing DX11 adaptation. Let's just hope everything is picking up nicely. As for PC publishing, I hope MSGS take more efforts on PC departments. At least make a nice looking Zoo Tycoon or something.

Dovella
Go Microsoft !!!!!!!

In reply to magicalclick

#Jul 21st @ 7:42 AM

From two year i switch from console to PC for gaming.

I love PC Gaming ,

Adapt your PC to Gaming can be "expensive"

but

The games PC cost a lot less games per console

i Buy Street Fighter 4 for 22 Eur free ship from England to italy and more more title very low Cost .

I love Steam Service

for me the future of gaming is a PC with Digital Delivering

Console or gaming in streaming not have a future

PS. only Nintendo is different beacuse its strength is based on its brand (mario , Zelda, Etc.)

magicalclick

In reply to Dovella

#Jul 21st @ 11:02 AM

That's why I included the Rental Experience. With Gamefly, I am really flying. You can't really rent PC games, which is a big turn off for me. Sure I end up with no games in my collection, but, I don't have time replay old games anyway. I have like 25 games still waiting to be finished, and still growing. Arggg, I hope time stops.

CreamFilling512

Sometimes I'll get a PC game if its single-player and cheaper than the Xbox version. Otherwise if its multiplayer it's best on Xbox since I can play with friends and not be a lonely PC gamer.

intelman

In reply to CreamFilling512

#Jul 22nd @ 9:20 AM

Convert your friends, that is what I did. I game with a small group of people anyways. I've done 12, even at that low number lan parties at each others houses get really warm Tongue Out .

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

In reply to CreamFilling512

#Jul 22nd @ 9:20 AM

It's true that there aren't many (any?) PC games with split-screen or "multiple people at the same computer" games (spare a few rare console ports from the mid-1990s like Micromachines V3), but I certainly don't get lonely playing games online (maybe it's because I'm a jaded misanthrope? *shrugs*)

I'm still convinced PC games are best, you just can't beat a mouse and keyboard for trigger-happy FPS games or RTS.

Shining Arcanine

In reply to LeoDavidson

#Jul 20th @ 12:26 PM

If something is hard-locking your PC, you likely have one of three issues:

1. Bad drivers - These can be a source of a multitude of problems, especially if either the uninstallers do not clean things well or the installers leave components of the old drivers in place such that Windows will use them along side the components of the new drivers. Having had driver issues like these in the past, I know two possibly solutions. The first and simplest solution is probably to do a completely reinstallation of Windows by wiping everything clean on the hard drive and installing the latest drivers from the start. The second and more complicated, but possibly easier solution is to remove all traces of your existing drivers from your machine and then install the latest drivers. This all assumes that the latest drivers from your hardware manufacterer fixes your problem.

2. Bad hardware - This is a problem that is a pain to track down, but can cause alot of issues. Bad graphics hardware will cause system lockups when stressed, as it does not interact with the driver proper (hence why it is bad). Bad add-in cards can prevent programs from closing as the kernel mode components programs use (in their interaction with the drivers) can freeze, preventing Windows from being able to terminate the program, even if the user-mode portion is terminated. It is difficult to track the cause of the problem, but in your case, I assume, if the drivers are not the cause, it is the cause of something between your northbridge chip and your graphics chip, if it is not a problem in your graphics chip. One possibility is that you have an overheating problem which is worth exploring, but if you have overheating hardware, it could very well be damaged and therefore need to be replaced.

3. Bad operating system - Operating systems that are bad can be a source of numerous difficulties. If you run Windows Millenium Edition or Windows Vista, or even an older 9x operating system like Windows 95, and the other two possibilities are not the cause, the problem is likely your operating system. This can be resolved by reformating your computer and installing Windows XP. Even if the operating system is not the cause of the problem, if you use one of the operating systems I mentioned, I highly recommend reformatting your PC and installing either Windows XP or Windows 2000. A properly configured system that has one of these two operating systems will likely avoid many headaches the operating systems I mentioned above are prone to developing.

I know people are probably going to jump on me for the Vista comment, but since Vista has been a source of headaches for so many people, it is hard not to poke fun at it at times, kind of like the Windows RG Edition satire of Clippy from Microsoft Word.

magicalclick

In reply to Shining Arcanine

#Jul 22nd @ 8:44 PM

You forgot to mention 4) Anti-Virus crippled the PC.