What the hell Microsoft, hate PC gaming? | The Coffeehouse

LeoDavidson

I know (non-driver) software bugs can't cause a BSOD or hard-lock.

It doesn't seem worth reinstalling Windows, or messing around with hardware temperature monitoring etc., just because of a couple of lock-ups, though.

The fact is, even the latest, best graphics drivers still have bugs which will cause a crash in some situations.

If the PC was locking up often, and in situations which nobody else could reproduce, then I'd start investigating it. Otherwise, it's just part of running a cutting-edge game, IMO.

Console games lock-up sometimes as well, of course. That's life... not many complex systems are bug free. Smiley

Dovella
Go Microsoft !!!!!!!

probably..

I Have Magic Driver Magic Windows , Magic Hardware ,

I Love PC for Gaming...... PS

Buy Original Game Update your Gpu Driver and use Windows Update.

Regards

LeoDavidson

In reply to Dovella

#Jul 23rd @ 6:46 AM

I don't pirate games and everything is up-to-date. Still, some games will crash some machines sometimes. That's life.

The NVidia driver changelogs confirm that it isn't just me. Smiley

Some games are rock solid but that doesn't mean others don't do things which expose bugs.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

In reply to W3bbo

#Jul 20th @ 10:13 AM

I'm not with you on this. Especially since I see what crazy mechanisms are put in place to make sure games don't get pirated... Why would that be done in the first place if it isn't a problem?

aL_
Rx ftw

Digital distro is absolutly the key. i dont blame devs for not wanting to publish on the pc because of piracy/unstandardized platform and what not, i blame microsoft.

consider steam. games on steam are a pain in the ass to crack and a pain in the ass to get working even with a crack. (yes i know this from experience) regular people dont know how to do that.. there is a definite bar over witch piracy just gets to difficuly for the regular user. the originall xbox was easy to hack and pirate games on so everyone i knew who had xboxes did that. piracy is not a pc only affair

and pc games are not profitable? ehm.. hello? world of warcraft? cod? TF2? sims? even with the piracy these games bring home the bacon and with digital distrubution and systems like steam where games can essencially be encrypted and tied to the specific user, piracy would be much less of a problem..

And since microsoft doesnt have to build and subsidize the hardware pc games run on, they have a far smaller investment to make.

if microsoft would just port the xbox ux to the pc with the online store abilities is has, they would make a whole lot of cach and also brign more people into the xbox ecosystem..

gaming is what keeps windows on top in the home.. without gaming, there is not a whole lot of motivation left to run windows instead of the alternatives. if i was microsoft i'd be alot more careful of one of the pillars of my buisness..

Shining Arcanine

In reply to magicalclick

#Jul 22nd @ 9:01 PM

People still run anti-virus software? I thought the need for that stuff was eliminated some time last millenium. :/

Shining Arcanine

In reply to aL_

#Jul 23rd @ 2:14 PM

I agree completely.

The key thing keeping the general population from switching to Linux are game compatibility and gaming performance. If new game releases are not made for Windows, all of the games avaliable will become legacy software, giving the WINE project a stable target API to emulate on Linux. Once that happens, it will only be a matter of time before there really is no reason for people to use Windows over Linux.

If new game releases keep being made for the PC, the API will be a moving target with each new release of Windows and WINE will continually be playing catch-up. Failing to ensure this will be financial suicide for Microsoft.

aL_
Rx ftw

In reply to Shining Arcanine

#Jul 23rd @ 2:51 PM

yeah.. atleast microsoft are still investing in directX and working with nvidia and amd to push the limits on windows gaming. but they could do so much more.. casual gaming is sort of lost to the web and can be run basically anywhere, but the problem is making money of it. people do that now with ads but ads suck Smiley steam has done some work here but if microsoft put some effort in, they could blow this space wide open

also, if the experience could be shared with xboxes.. theyd get twice the platform for half the price (to each division) Smiley

LeoDavidson

In reply to Shining Arcanine

#Jul 23rd @ 2:46 PM

People still run anti-virus software? I thought the need for that stuff was eliminated some time last millenium. :/

Lately there have been multiple cases where legitimate sites (or advertising networks) were hacked to insert malicious content.

There's still a steady stream of exploits in web browsers, web browser plugins and document/media viewers/players.

Unless browse using Lynx or something*, and never download a file (since you can't know that whoever makes the stuff you download is as careful and infection free as you), I think it's sensible to run at least some form of anti-virus.

(*Or run an OS nobody bothers to attack.)

LeoDavidson

In reply to aL_

#Jul 23rd @ 2:14 PM

It's not that you can't make a profit with PC games, and not that some PC games (like WoW) don't make an exceptional profit.

It's that, compared to consoles, fewer PC games make a big enough profit to make up for the hassle of making and supporting a port.

If that wasn't the case then more PC ports would be made, at least by the publishers who aren't MS/Sony/Nintendo. Publishers aren't known for avoiding profit. Smiley

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

In reply to aL_

#Jul 23rd @ 2:14 PM

the originall xbox was easy to hack and pirate games on so everyone i knew who had xboxes did that. piracy is not a pc only affair

C'mon you're not suggesting just because there's piracy on the Xbox side that it's ANYTHING resembling the scale on the PC side

magicalclick

In reply to Shining Arcanine

#Jul 23rd @ 2:46 PM

Well doh, they don't know that. They always install crappy anti-virus and still get infected in the end. Most people are not computer literate. Most people don't read at all, like "where is record button?"... I say "the giant red button written in Chinese".

magicalclick

In reply to aL_

#Jul 23rd @ 2:14 PM

MS does not own all game retailers. They do sell games thru Windows Market Place, but, they don't own the whole PC game distribution, that would be monopoly waiting for obvious massive endless law suits.

To some people talking about drivers and such, Windows Crashs on Games and so does Xbox360 that runs the exact same hardware and software sepcifications. Just so happens Xbox360 crash less since it is the same hardware.

NitzW

AV/PC vs. consoles aside, the problem is that MS was heavily promoting the Games for Windows campaign before Windows Vista, claiming to making gaming a "priority" on Windows. The released data showing that games were the #2 uses of PC's after email, and continually touted a renewed push for Windows gaming overall. There were goings to be hundreds of PC gaming "kiosks" in Gamestop's/EB's for example - that never materialized. These weren't off-the-cuff comments from one rep, they were continually said by many leading up to and during Vistas launch. They had some Games for Windows reps turn up on popular tech/gaming sites. They had a shelf life of a few months, the turnover there was more frequent than a Walmart store. Cripes, Alan Wake itself was promoted by MS as what can be done with DX10 and Vista! So basically, most of what MS said was bullcrap. Yes, we got somewhat standardized boxing and supporting the 360 control pad was a smart stardardization move, but they could have done so much more.

PC gaming obviously doesn't bring in the revenues that console gaming does, and piracy is an issue certainly, but there are many things that MS could do as the driver for the industry to help this and simplify the PC gaming experience, but now they obviously don't want to knife their 360 baby - that want the benefit of touting "choice! choice!" but also want the security of a closed platform. Release games at or near the console release date on PC's, tailor them to the PC and don't rush the ports, actually keep the PC Live! service up to date and promote it (it's just a joke right now, the Live! Marketplace app for the PC is laughably pathetic). I would love a port of Gears of War 2 and Halo3 for the PC (even though I have them on my 360), but it's not going to happen, even though they've already sold over 10+ million on the 360 combined. MS continaully touted that the console and PC are distinct categories and are not really in comeptition , why not put their money where their mouth is and see if holds true? You can't make a sad port of Halo2, require Vista and then cry foul when it doesn't sell like gangbusters considering how ridiculously outdated it was at the time of release.

MS has subsized the Xbox franchise with billions of losseses, yet as soon as the economy takes a downturn, they axe even the meagre PC gaming projects they had. They are in the PC Gaming Alliance - why, exactly?

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

In reply to NitzW

#Jul 24th @ 6:49 AM

I don't know if PC gaming NEEDS Microsoft... MS is certainly behind the Steam... or Popcap... or Blizzard...

The best that MS could do is to tell the MSG studios to crank out a PC version, and make it LIVE enabled...

MS is probably finding it hard to break into already established territories of those guys

Shining Arcanine

In reply to aL_

#Jul 23rd @ 4:05 PM

New versions of DirectX do not mean anything if there are no new games to use it. The API becomes stable when new games stop being made, regardless of whether or not they are making new versions of it.

Shining Arcanine

In reply to LeoDavidson

#Jul 23rd @ 7:54 PM

I run Windows XP without an anti-virus and every few years, I run one of those free online anti-virus scans. My system always is clean.

I have the latest version of Firefox installed, plus Spybot Search and Destroy's immunizations installed. I also run NoScript and AdBlock Plus, which minimize the surface area of the main attack vectors that such exploits use. I also use gmail and let it filter out junk mail so I don't view it. Doing this has kept me malware/spyware/virus/trojan-free for quite some time and because of this, I really don't see the need for an antivirus scanner.

NitzW

In reply to Minh

#Jul 24th @ 7:30 AM

PC gaming needs a heavy hitter to help standardize some level of experience. MS is far and away in the best position to do that. Steam doesn't begin to approach the exposure and marketing muscle that MS could bring to the table for PC gaming. If MS were actually serious about their claims to promote PC Gaming as an essential part of the Windows experience like they were talking up before Vista, they could do a lot more. Here's a few suggestions:

1) A Live Arcade portal for PC. Make quick ports or simultaneous releases of Live arcade games available to the PC, and promote community games as well. Steam's interface is getting pretty damned archaic and convoluted for this, the Xbox NXE has them beat in this regard.

2) A marketplace that looks more than a warmed-over web page left to crumble for dust. Where are PC avatars? PC videogame news updates? Previews? Demos? Exciting 3D interface (done in WPF even)? Produce a Games Portal for Windows7 that's more than a slightly tweaked Games folder from Vista.

3) Publish actual *PC* games. Fund development. Advertise. Promote. Go outside the usual genres, produce an innovative action game that promotes the hardware players in the industry. Be prepared to take a loss to evangelize the platform - you know, about 1/100th the hit they've taken for the Xbox.

4) Continually update the Vista performance Index to make it relevant for gamers. Remember the promise that you'd just need to look at the back of the box to find your Vista "score" and know if the game will work on your PC based on that alone instead of complex jargon? It could be a lot better, there are a myriad of ways to simplify the complexities of an open platforms capabilities. Lord knows Nvidia and ATI don't want to make it simple with the ridiculous number of re-branded products out there.

LeoDavidson

In reply to Shining Arcanine

#Jul 24th @ 8:35 AM

I run Windows XP without an anti-virus and every few years, I run one of those free online anti-virus scans. My system always is clean.

It's your PC and your choice but to me that's like saying "I haven't worn a seatbelt in years and haven't been killed in a car crash yet, so I don't see the point of seatbelts."

Anti-virus is a safety net for when things go wrong, not something that's likely to save you on a daily basis.

I have the latest version of Firefox installed

Firefox gets patched reasonably quickly but there are still exploits that exist for several days. If you have Flash, Adobe Reader, etc. installed at all then make that weeks, not days.

plus Spybot Search and Destroy's immunizations installed

Isn't that a form of anti-virus, or am I confused about what the tool does? Never used it myself.

I also run NoScript and AdBlock Plus, which minimize the surface area of the main attack vectors that such exploits use.

I don't know how anyone can use NoScript without whitelisting so many sites that the purpose of it is defeated. I tried it I & thought it should be renamed to "NoWeb" as it broke most of the Internet (especially tech news websites). Smiley It's a nice idea, since javascript is involved in so many exploits these days, but unfortunately too many sites use javascript (not always but usually gratuitously, IMO).

Still, I agree that you are unlikely to get a virus -- as are most people who are sensible -- and it's also true that anti-virus tools aren't 100% effective and won't catch every new threat in time. But, IMO, the good a/v tools are worth the performance hit they impose.

Shining Arcanine

In reply to LeoDavidson

#Jul 24th @ 9:48 PM

Since NoScript blocks javascripts, among other things, from sources not on its whitelist, I am fairly confident about its effectiveness. If someone managed to get a malicious script on a white-listed server, it is possible that they could exploit something, but I am really not concerned.

As for Spybot Search and Destroy's Immunizations, it is really just a blacklist of sites that is inserted into the image/cookie/etcetera block lists of web browsers. Without actually having examined my HOSTS' file, its GUI suggests that it adds a block list to the HOSTS file too, most likely by redirecting connections to malicious sites to the local loopback. It also has some other things, but it is only focused on dealing with spyware. It doesn't deal with anything else.