Posted By: eagle | Jul 25th @ 2:57 AM
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Sabot
Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.

++ I agree, Dvorak is an idiot on this occasion.

 

Ray7 go back and read what I said then go do some more homework.

 

Yep, I think we can count this thread as a bust.

aL_
aL_
Rx ftw

ah.. "everyone" loves to profess thedoom of any big company. esp microsoft Smiley

they have one bad quarter (just like everyone* else) just before their biggest product shipps. comparing microsoft to google in the os market is just ridicoclus.. chrome os is at most a concept ffs. something to bait journalists that dont know any better. (unfortunatly there are alot of those)
microsoft aint going no where. ms marketing has finally woken up and done a decent job of win7. and next year there is natal witch is causing a huge buzz even thogh the info has been so sparse. with natal also beeing released to windows microsoft is showing signs of realizing that it has to plug windows as well, not just the xbox

 

 

*apple you say? well considering that the iphone wasnt even available outside the us last year its hardly suprising that sales have bbomed since then.. sure, apple make good products but as for focus.. i dont know.. recently ipod sales have started to decline and there is most likely a canibalization going on with iphones stealing sales from the ipod. focus? i dunno.. and what about apple tv? apple has its fair share of fails too.

Apple did not have a bad quarter, and you can bet that they expected the iPhone and Touch to cannibalize iPod sales...no surprise.  I hope Win 7 has a smooth launch because Microsoft needs that to happen.

Harlequin
Harlequin
http://twitter.c​om/TrueHarlequin

"Apple did not have a bad quarter"

 

No, but you have to wonder what would have happened if Apple just went all out and sold the iPhone worldwide to tons of carriers from the get-go. Instead of this AT&T lock-in crap for several years, and fighting non-stop with the jail-breaker teams...before they started to trickle to other countries/carriers slowly.

As usual, a few decent points wrapped in lunacy and failed logic coming from Dvorak.

 

"Note the dizzy remarks by Chief Executive Steve Ballmer, who recently insisted that online advertising would soon account for the majority of Microsoft's income. This is a software company making these comments."

 

Yep, and a pretty smart one. Software is moving online, and so far the only proven way to monetize online software is via advertising. Not getting into that game would be stupid on Microsoft's part. Failing to understand why this is true shows how horrid Dvorak is at analyzing anything, and why the rest of his rant is suspect.

 

Let's talk about his "failed" ventures:

 

* MSN. Don't know how you can call that a failure.

 

* IE. Hmm... the market leader is a failure? Oh, because it's given away for free, so it must be losing money for the company, right? Brilliant understanding and analysis there.

 

* Online magazines. Magazines, whether online or not, come and go. If they made profits while in publication, it's hard to call them failures, and Dvorak doesn't look into whether or not they were profitable. Brilliant analysis.

 

* MS Press. Still one of the better computer book publishers. That's a market that's drying up, however, so it's no wonder the "division is languishing" in Dvorak's words. Still no indication of failure.

 

* Toys. These are fads. They make ridiculous money for a year or two and then disappear into obscurity. Like most of these "failures" in Dvorak's list, he doesn't analyze whether or not the product made money... the fact that it's not around anymore means it was a failure. Brilliant analysis.

 

* Microsoft-TV. Really? Funny how AT&T Uverse is powered by MS tech in this space, and the Media Center enjoys quite a bit of popularity. This is a new market, even now, and Microsoft is still in the game here. Failure my arse.

 

* Photo editing. OK, I'll give him half a point. No one's going to easily dethrone PhotoShop. However, there's no indication that Microsoft failed to profit here, and they've not left the game entirely yet, so I don't think you can really classify this as a failure.

 

* Bing. First, Microsoft didn't "copy the idea" from Google and Yahoo!, as they've had a search engine for basically the same amount of time. And calling Bing a failure at this point in time really shows Dvorak's inability to accurately analyze anything.

 

* Clould applications. Funny how he mentions this but can't tie this in with the advertising rant. Whether or not cloud computing is going to be successful for anyone, you can't say Microsoft has failed here. They are stumbling a little, but pretty much everybody is. Despite that, it does appear to be where the future of software is likely to be, and Microsoft would be stupid not to be in this space.

 

* Zune. Is it as big as the IPod? No. Is it a failure? No.

 

Everything he mentions in passing fails in the same sort of ways. He never looks at profitability, only at some nebulous "popularity" or "longevity". By that logic, MS Basic was a failure, even though Dvorak counts it as a success. WTF?!

Hey, you can bleat and throw all the immature insults you want, but at the end of the day Apple is growing in a crap economy and MS isn't. Sounds to me as if you're worried that Dvorak might actually be right.

 

 

 

 

Apple showed declines in some areas, and good profits in areas where they've had important new releases. Meanwhile, Microsoft hasn't realesed anything new recently, so they showed a decline. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from either event, beyond "Apple had a good quarter and Microsoft didn't".

Who said anything about MS being doomed?

 

AL_ said:
*apple you say? well considering that the iphone wasnt even available outside the us last year its hardly suprising that sales have bbomed since then.. sure, apple make good products but as for focus.. i dont know.. recently ipod sales have started to decline and there is most likely a canibalization going on with iphones stealing sales from the ipod

 

When sales of one product are cannibalised by sales of something costing four times the price then I don't think they're really going to lose too much sleep over it.

 

AL_ said:
i dunno.. and what about apple tv? apple has its fair share of fails too.

 

Apple has had more failures than MS if you add them up (remember the Cube? And I predict that the new Shuffle will be another one; Apple will put the buttons back where they're supposed to sometime next year), but the reason they're forgiven is because when they screw up, they're usually trying to break new ground. When MS screws up, they're usually going over ground that has been covered before.

 

 

 

Then well done Apple for actually having something to release when they needed it.

 

Dvorak is a commentator. He thinks there's a problem and he's just saying what he thinks the problem is. I just happen to agree with him.

 

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

wkempf,

 

There are myths built on myths. See my earlier post on that.

 

I want to point out again that saying Microsoft copied the iPod or iPhone doesn't even make sense. Microsoft was in the market before Apple on both of these types of devices. Apple learned from Microsoft's mistakes, got in the market, and now Microsoft had to adjust its market strategy.

Yes, well done Apple. But equating any of that to the supposed demise or decline of Microsoft is ludicrous. It's link baiting, as usual, and nothing more. I highly doubt Dvorak is saying what he thinks the problem is, it's much more likely, given his track record, that he's stating the "problem" as he thinks will get him the most hits.

 

It's unclear what you're agreeing with him on. The vast majority of his article is rubish, and if you agree with the non-analysis there, well, not much we can discuss. If you just think Microsoft should focus on it's core more, as your posts here seem to indicate, well that's worthy of discussing, but I'm not sure we'll reach agreement.  I don't think Microsoft has stopped focusing on their core, and think it's very appropriate that they don't focus exclusively on the core.

I'm not sure why you're responding to me about "copying the IPod or IPhone". I never made that claim, didn't comment on Dvorak making the claim, and honestly don't believe it's relevant to Dvorak's point or the point of this thread. I agree that it's tiresome to hear about Microsoft "ripping off" some idea someone else "had first", when such claims are often not true, and not really relevant anyway. Google wasn't first, they were just better. Apple wasn't first with the IPod, they were just better (personal bias, I don't think they really are better, but perception is what counts, and I can't argue that). This is all true of many things Microsoft has done as well... they weren't first, they were just better.

interesting... i would say he has a point eventhough i don't think all his claims are true. lately microsoft has been trying hard to improve windows. however, the retail store... i'd say i'm not too optimistic about that. but it does have potentials if properly managed. probably what microsoft need to do is to focus on something and make it work, before giving attention to something else.

 

fyi, from the link you put, i actually looked at another article. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-vs-marketing-on-best-price , this article actually interests me more. which gives me more reason to say that eventhough dvorak have a way on saying things, he does have a point. i'd say just take the good part of what he's trying to say rather than being bothered by the words he used.

exoteric
exoteric
I : Next<I>

Let's bump this thread again every 2 years the next 10 years going forward as a showcase for predictions of the future and imminent demise.

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