Posted By: TommyCarlier | Aug 5th @ 4:14 AM
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Comments: 48 | Views: 908
Harlequin
Harlequin
http://twitter.c​om/TrueHarlequin

But you need a credit card to even use the iTunes store...so I don't see why we need these filters and the babysitting from Apple.

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CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

Except that you don't.  Anyone over 13 can purchase from the iTunes store using an iTunes gift card, an allowance granted by a parent through iTunes, or a parent's credit card.

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

omg, I'm going to get rid of my iPhone because Apple stupidly applied a policy to a dictionary app. I won't be able to look up the word 'fùck' in my iPhone dictionary app because of Apple's evil censoring ways. What if I need to know the definition!?!?!?!

That sound you hear is the real point flying over your head.

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

I don't like the fact that on the iPhone you're restricted to Apple-certified apps, but that should be the issue in itself. It's one of the reasons I don't plan on buying an iPhone.

 

But for people who accept the app store concept, crying about swear words being removed from a dictionary is silly.

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

I hear my point going over your head.

Really? Because I've discussed your point in this very thread.

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

And your point, besides that the decision was dumb, is that it will hurt iPhone sales because of negative perceptions of Apple.

 

It isn't really anything that should hurt iPhone sales: if you're an iPhone owner and accept the idea that Apple has to certify your apps, either you've been happy with the apps you've been able to download from the Apple Store or you haven't been. If it does impact sales, it will be because people on blogs are making a big deal over nothing.

 

New competition for the iPhone , like the Palm Pre, new Android phones, and new WM phones in the future, will make a dent on iPhone sales I think and if all of your apps don't have to be certified that will be a plus for those platforms.

 

As for the developer side, its not that hard to adjust an application to meet criteria.

 

"It isn't really anything that should hurt iPhone sales: if you're an iPhone owner and accept the idea that Apple has to certify your apps, either you've been happy with the apps you've been able to download from the Apple Store or you haven't been. If it does impact sales, it will be because people on blogs are making a big deal over nothing."

 

1. The point is that people aren't happy with the apps they're allowed to download anymore, making that statement not make a lot of sense.

2. How can "people on blogs (who) are making a big deal over nothing" impact sales unless those sales were impacted "because of negative perceptions of Apple"? I am either missing something, or you're not arguing your case very well.

 

"As for the developer side, its not that hard to adjust an application to meet criteria."

 

Really? Because this dictionary application got rejected multiple times and now has a 17+ rating they can't do anything about. That doesn't sound like it's all that easy to "adjust an application to meet criteria".

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

First, I was just putting this in a different perspective---people shouldn't be making buying decisions on phones based on whether Apple asked a dictionary to remove swear words. It shouldn't make Apple 'uncool'.

 

Are people unhappy with the apps that are available to them on the Apple Store? Are cool apps potentially being kept out of the Apple Store? If that's so, that should be the bigger issue.

 

Anyway, regardless, up until now the iPhone hasn't had any good competition on the market so the policies of the App store didn't matter. Now that the iPhone will start having good competitors people will be looking around on the market anyway. Whether people make the decision to go to a competitor because Apple censored a dictionary and that made Apple uncool, or because they think they can get better apps on the other platforms, I don't know..

 

 

 

Are cool apps potentially being kept out of the Apple Store?

Yes

 

If that's so, that should be the bigger issue.

Indeed, and it is (part of) the bigger issue. This thread is just about the latest incarnation of the problem.

 

Apple's behaviour with app validation is indefensible to anyone who has been paying attention to it. It's been indefensible for months/years and we keep getting more examples of it (and then people treating them as isolated incidents).

 

If it was just NinjaWords, or just Google Voice, or just the photo-taking apps or just the NIN app, the e-books app, the Shacknews Chatty app, the... the list goes on and on and the reasons for blocking the apps are inconsistent (between versions of the same app let alone between competing apps), opaque, anti-competitive and stupid.

 

("Oh no something can view a webpage, there might be bad content on it so we'd better ban that app, but we don't ban the built-in browser that can view the exact same content!" ...And being able to literally block stuff for competing with built-in apps, present or future... that's ridiculous.)

 

Not to mention the awful process takes weeks while you sit in limbo wondering if your time/effort/money developing the thing will be wasted and wondering when/if you'll be able to offer a service or update to your customers.

 

In the early days the standard excuse for the process was that it would lead to quality control and the benefit that people wouldn't have to wade through hundreds of rubbish apps in order to find the good ones. Well that turned out to be a complete fantasy. What's the excuse now? There isn't one. It's just Apple being anti-competitive, lock-down, control-freak c**ts as usual and they're being defended for it as usual, even by some of the app developers affected. The RDF is strong!

 

 

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

What excuse did Apple give when they rejected Google Voice

rhm
rhm

Something to do with the iPhone already being a phone. lolz

brian.shapiro
brian.shapiro
things go on as always

The big problem imo isn't that the Apple Store has quality control policies, but you're unable to get something outside of the Apple Store.

As far as I can tell -- and part of the overall problem is that Apple are often extremely vague about the reason for rejecting an app or an app update --it was rejected because it competed with built-in functionality of the device and/or because it may have annoyed AT&T by undercutting them or helping a service which competes with them.

 

Wikipedia states: "Apple Inc. states that the reason for the rejection and removals is that these apps duplicate certain iPhone functions and features." The article they cite for that comment doesn't seem to say that outright at all, though.

 

Here's a statement from the developer of an earlier/alternative (non-Google-developed) Google Voice iPhone app:

Richard Chipman from Apple just called - he told me they’re removing GV Mobile from the App Store due to it duplicating features that the iPhone comes with (Dialer, SMS, etc). He didn’t actually specify which features, although I assume the whole app in general. He wouldn’t send a confirmation email either - too scared I would post it.

 

Whatever the law, is it really in the end-users' best interests to block apps which offer alternative/improved versions of built-in features? Surely not. Apple are being customer-hostile with those judgements.

 

Harlequin
Harlequin
http://twitter.c​om/TrueHarlequin

But switch it around. Imagine that Apple had 95% of the desktop market. Do you think they would have been able to dump Google Voice then?

I don't know. Application of anti-trust law seems quite arbitrary to me.

Bass
Bass
www.s​preadfirefox.c​om/5years/

It is. A judge has to decide if a company has monopoly power in an largely subjectively defined market. So like most law, it's purely subjective. I doubt though that a judge would find iPhone as a monopoly product and thus subject to anti-trust regulation.

 

There can be actual legitalization (the strongest method). But just case law (from a judge) occuring could make a platform vendor liable for damages it's policies cause to software vendors building on that platform.

 

I think it's only a matter of time Apple gets sued by someone ticked off his app got denied, and the success or failure of such a case will effect the success or failure of future cases.

 

There are damages that occur when Apple denies an app. Ultimately a judge/jury will have to decide who is liable for the real damages that occur when an app gets denied, if it is Apple denying the app, or the ISV writing the app. And that can depend on the biases of the judge (or jury), the proficiency of the lawyers on both sides, the star alignment, whatever. Smiley

 

If you want real truth and justice, you can only find it in mathematics. Maybe.

Interesting stuff.

 

I think that short-term this will not really have much of an impact on the consumer view, but that isn't really the problem.  What Apple will be concerned about is how it affects development on the platform, which will ultimately affect users. Whether they like it or not (and lets face it, they won't) they are going to be up against some competition for developers in the future; the Pre will eventually get its games API, and Microsoft is already making moves to bring some of those developers across to the Windows Mobile platform.

 

Apple has at least recognised the bad feeling that the app store review process is beginning to generate, which is why Phil Schiller himself has been forced to respond the criticism generated by this case in particular. He makes a reasonable case, but unfortunately it also highlights the inconsistency of the review process.

 

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

Curious;

 

Why does the EU fine Microsoft for Internet Explorer with Windows and not Apple with it's AppStore? At least on Windows you get to install whatever you want.

 

Microsoft should issue some complaints with the EU, that they want to be able to put Internet Explorer onto the iPhone without the use of an AppStore. Two can play that game.

 

C'mon Ballmer, show us some teeth!

Someone was talking about this on another blog somewhere. 

 

MS sells products that you add to your device.

Apple sells devices.

 

MS cannot dictate what you do with your device because you didn't buy it from them. It would like Ikea coming around and telling you that you can't buy anyone else's furniture to put in a house you own. 

 

Apple meanwhile, built the whole house including the furniture and the appliances that plug into the wall sockets. If you buy a new toaster and find that it uses a standard socket that doesn't fit the special iSockets that Apple installed all over the house they built then that's too bad; you shouldn't have bought the iHouse.

 

 

 

Maddus Mattus
Maddus Mattus
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

Same with my car, it has an iPod connector.

 

I can only hook up Apple products to it. I even bing-ed (hehehe) for an iPod connector converter, but I could not find one. So basically I have the worlds most expensive iPod accessoiry and I dont even own an iPod!

 

My collegue has an Alfa Romeo wich comes with an Windows MP3 player, wich allows you plug in any USB drive.

Why does the EU fine Microsoft for Internet Explorer with Windows and not Apple with it's AppStore? At least on Windows you get to install whatever you want.

Part of the reason is because Microsoft have a monpoly in the OS market while Apple don't have a monopoly in the smartphone market.

 

However, that doesn't explain why very few states have taken action against Apple in the markets of portable audio-players and online music stores where they have/had monopolies with similar market shares to Windows and where they have most definitely abused those monopolies in (IMO) worse ways than anything Microsoft ever did with Internet Explorer.

 

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