Could turning off the power strip have a negative effect a PC? | The Coffeehouse

Doctor Who

Every night we turn our PCs off. Once a week I'll turn the power strip off that the PC, speaker, etc, are powered through. I'm wondering, could doing that have any negative influence on the PC or any of the components?

fknight

There shouldn't be any negative effects from turning the power strip off once per week. It's still an electrical circuit with switches - the only difference being that with the power strip off, there are two switches in the off position instead of one.

I guess the only real difference as far as your components go is that your computer is probably getting power to the motherboard even when the computer is "off" but I don't believe this is important, someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

AdamSpeight2008
The Bandito Coder

In reply to fknight

#Sep 26th @ 9:50 PM

If you are turning the computer off with the button on the front of the machine or via shutdown from the start menu.

Beware the motherboard is still powered.

The only safe way is to switch off via the power switch at the back and removing the cable.

Also the act of turning on and off a computer is one the most high risk things you can do.

As it could cause a dangerously high power spike/surge which could fry the electronic components of the computer.

Though the chances of that happening are low, if it does happen the consequence are devestating. (As I can attest to; Sparks & Blue Smoke)

So my computer & pheriperals are connected to the power socket via a battery backup solution with surge protection.

fknight

In reply to AdamSpeight2008

#Sep 26th @ 10:04 PM

Yeah I use a UPS (as everyone should) on all my equipment (TV, DVD, STB, Stereo, Computers, Server, Routers). I generally just put things to sleep unless there is a thunderstorm, at which point all the UPSs get turned off and unplugged from the wall.

androidi

Don't know really. What I have noticed few times (not enough to say if it's significant) is that some devices that have been running 24/7 for years and then are switched off for a moment seem to fail often enough at that point that I guess the lesson is, if you're going to "reboot" a device like that, be prepared for it to fail if it's something that you need back up quick.

One theory/possible reason why that happens is that the capacitors esr tends to increase with age when in conditions like inside the pc power supply (high/fast load variation, ripple etc). But the operating temp acts to offset that effect and when there's a cool cycle the esr increases enough for it to fail to operate properly.

Ion Todirel
buuu

> Once a week I'll turn the power strip off that the PC, speaker

what activity would require that? Big Smile

TommyCarlier
I want my scalps!

At home, we have 2 PCs connected to a single power strip (together with a printer, scanner and an external hard drive) and we turn the power off when both PCs aren't used. This means switching it on and off multiple times a day. We've been doing this for years and never had it damage hardware before.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

In reply to fknight

#Sep 26th @ 10:54 PM

I'm not a fan of US power outlets since to truly turn something off you need to physically remove the plug from the socket; I'm surprised only a handful of countries have widespread switchable wall sockets, why aren't they more popular?

Dodo
I'm your creativity creator™ :)

It certainly won't hurt to turn off the power, however, switching the inlet power on and off puts additional stress towards the voltage regulators and capacitors inside of your power supply. This stress is further increased, if the device was turned on for a longer time, because this generates heat which expands the material. Turning off the power will make those parts cool down. If the temperature difference between turned on and turned off is very high, turning off the power may increase the likeliness of the device failing.

This doesn't mean you should keep it turned on in cold offices, just because you want to avoid buying a new one. Make sure, that keeping it running is less expensive than the device costs. For standby power it usually is, but even in standby, there are components that are completely powered off. If you have warranty, don't worry about it, you'll get a free replacement.

figuerres
???

why? why turn off the power stip? what is that doing for you?

and as was noted: UPS!!! power strips and most "surge" strips are not very good at really protecting stuff.

the only thing i generaly do not put on a ups is a laser printer, they tend to draw a big load when they print and that can tick off a UPS.

but my cable tv box, my pc, my router, my monitors etc... are all on UPS power.

for example a strip does nothing for a power sag or brown out. which can damage lot's of electronics - esp when that happens repeatadly.

also a surge strip - most of them anyway *WILL NOT STOP A LIGHTNING STRIKE*

but a good UPS will kill it's self but not the stuff on the other side. and Good UPS boxes have $10,000 / $20,000 and somethimes more in warranty coverage if they fail and damage a computer or other device.

I live in Tampa, FLorida and hear of stuff getting zapped every year by storms, in 10 years with UPS so far I have had zero losses.

and my UPS generally shows 1 or 2 power events a week in it's log.

Doctor Who

In reply to figuerres

#Sep 27th @ 9:49 AM

I use a power strip because of the cost of a UPS. The last time I purchased a UPS (admitted several years ago), it was very expensive. I just don't have that in my budget.

figuerres
???

In reply to Doctor Who

#Sep 27th @ 1:47 PM

well for less than $200 plus shipping US you can get an APC Backu-UPS with a good VA number...

http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.aspx?wclss=W21&pCurrent=1&Mode=1&Brand=AME

you can go to the Mfg web site and they have a sizing tool to check on what you need but a typical home pc can use for example:

APC Back-UPS ES 550 – “Green” 550VA UPS

us cost $64.99 plus shipping.

APC has two main lines "Back-UPS" and "Smart-UPS" for a server you go for the Smart Line, for home and light use the Back line is just fine and costs a lot less.

VA is Volt Amps and rates how long it can run with a given load. for most home and light offcie use on a computer you hookup a usb cable to the pc and get a ups with a 5 to 10 minute runtime. the software will shut down the pc when it's running on UPS battery power before the battery is drained.

one time when we had a bad storm here i ran my cable box and tv and a lamp for about 4 hours on a 1400 VA box.

made the power outage much more barable.

Bass
www.spreadfirefox.com/5years/

In reply to androidi

#Sep 27th @ 12:01 AM

This. A computer running 24/7 might survive longer then one booting on and off, due to less stress on the electronics. Smiley

This might not be true for hard discs though (or any moving parts), for but PSU/mobo/CPU.

CreamFilling512

In reply to Bass

#Sep 27th @ 11:27 PM

It is very true for hard drives, they are only reliable for a certain number of start/stop cycles. When the drive is spinning the heads are suspended in the air and there's no physical wear, but when you stop the drive they have to be physically parked and there is wear and tear. Eventually it will fail.

PeterF
Early Adopter

It could influence the file allocation table. I noticed a high probability of harddisk corruption when people use a power switch. Some people switch off the power switch automatically without confirming that the PC has completely finished powering down. The result is registry and file corruption. Didn't notice mechanical problems though.

Peter

giovanni
...

In reply to CreamFilling512

#Sep 28th @ 1:59 AM

Wear and tear should be true for fans too. However, I am afraid that while fans can be cheaply overdesigned, hard drives are not.

In general I would expect modern electronics to be designed so that normal wear and tear (due to always on use or turning them on/off) would matter only after the device is obsolete. Normally I would consider switching the power strip off once a week not more damaging than leaving the device on all the time.

@AdamSpeight2008 the spike will occurr also when unplogging the device. This has to do with the phisical shape of the prungs and their vicinity with high voltage sources. In my experience european prongs are better designed than US ones - essentailly because they have to deal with higer voltages - and they tend to spark less. I think switching the power strip off should be better as it should be better protected against these spykes.

Massif
aim stupidly high, expect to fail often.

In reply to giovanni

#Sep 28th @ 4:07 AM

Assuming your aim is to save power, would you not be better served with a smart-plug type affair that turns all the peripherals off when the PC isn't used. That saves having to disconnect the power every time, saves more power as the standby usage of peripherals is saved whenever the PC isn't in use, not just when you consciously turn everything off and requires no physical effort on your behalf.

I've had one of these at home for the last couple of years and it's proved a very easy way to disconnect not-in-use speakers/monitors/printers etc.. while the machine is asleep.

spivonious

Wow, a lot of FUD in this thread.

I've been using the "power strip" method since the early 90s and have never had a piece of hardware fail due to the power-on "surge". Ever since ATX came around, the motherboard still gets power when the machine is plugged in. It has to, since the motherboard is what tells the power supply to turn on to full power when you hit the power button on the case.

Yes there's theoretically more wear-and-tear on the components when powering on/off, but the difference between that and letting your PC go to sleep is miniscule.

To the OP: it's perfectly fine to do what you're doing.

To the posters suggesting a UPS: I'll stick with my $10 power strip that has surge protection built-in and one of those $500k connected equipment warranties. Getting a UPS for home use is ridiculous.

figuerres
???

In reply to spivonious

#Sep 28th @ 5:11 AM

what state do you live in?

ever looked at lighting strike data for tampa fl? we are one of 2 or 3 places in the us that get record levels of hits every year.

one of the other places is in colorado due to it's high altitude.

this is not a joke. also I have gear that runs 7x24 in my home... so it's more vunerable over time to any power issues that may happen while i am gone.

giovanni
...

In reply to figuerres

#Sep 28th @ 5:50 AM

That is why you should phisically pull the plug when you leave for an extended period of time (don't forget that the plug must be more than 20 cm away from the power supply - if you have ever been too near to a lightning you know I am not kidding). UPS and power strips (good ones) only protect you so far, but € or $ 10 for a power strip with surge protection is much cheaper than $64 for a UPS with the same surge protection technology.

If you want to save energy by shutting off peripherals when your pc is on standbuy probably a smart-plug (thank you massif) is the best option, too bad I never saw them in the EU.

Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

In reply to giovanni

#Sep 28th @ 6:10 AM

I got a smart-socket power strip with suge protection for free from my power supplier (unprompted, it just arrived in the post).

It even works to switch off peripherals when in sleep mode as well as 'off' mode, so I don't ever use the wall switch. I don't have any way or measuring the power consumption, but if there is a trickle to the motherboard when 'off' then I might start using the wall power switch.

In the mid-1990s, while still using Windows 3.1 where the PC did not switch itself off, we were taught to use the wall switch in preference to the PC power switch as the wall switches are much more robust and less likely to fail after prolonged use.

Herbie

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

In reply to spivonious

#Sep 28th @ 5:11 AM

Any modern UPS has a usb dongle that can be used to inform your computer that the battery is

1) being used

2) not being charged

This allows your computer (a media center, for instance) to shut itself down safely if the power stays off too long.

Further, your $10 powerstrip won't save your RAID nor will it keep your active defrag session from trashing your harddrive.

So, no, a UPS is not rediculous.

CreamFilling512

In reply to spivonious

#Sep 28th @ 5:11 AM

Yeah its true most any hardware including hard drives should be reliable for many years by design, regardless of if you shut your machine off everyday. But if it has a defect or is near failure, toggling the power could be what pushes it over the edge.

CreamFilling512

In reply to ScanIAm

#Sep 28th @ 7:03 AM

You can spend a lot on a UPS though, and they're certainly not all equal. Most have a simple line regulator, more expensive ones have power conditioning. Most have crappy inverters that spit out square waves. And there is some interruption when they switch between main and battery, a proper UPS never outputs power from the mains, it only uses it to charge the battery. Plus the batteries have a limited lifetime of course, and are expensive. You gotta draw the line somewhere, personally for most people I'd say just use a power strip, save your work often, and get a backup solution, much cheaper.

PerfectPhase
"This is not war, this is pest control!" - Dalek to Cyberman

In reply to ScanIAm

#Sep 28th @ 7:03 AM

You are aware that the defrag in windows is transaction, the data is copied and verified before the MFT is updated, and that itself is journalled, also the write cache is disabled so there is a very high chance that you're machine will survive having the power pulled during a defrag.

If you're running a raid controller that uses large write caches with no battery backup on the controller to store data you care about, you deserve all you get! Smiley

I say this with a APC 2200XL UPS sitting in the loft BTW. Apply expensive technology only as need. Assess how much the data on the machine, and the machine it's self is worth to you and act accordingly. There is no way I'm going to use a ups for my media center PC for example, a surge protector is more than enough.