UK ID Card Pledge | The Coffeehouse

irascian
Irascible Ian

Tensor wrote:

Oh dear. Oh deary deary me. I didnt notice this bit at first.

I'm just going to assume this bit is a troll post.

I figured the whole "black and white with no grey" rant was a troll post. At best it can only be described as rather silly and unbelievably naive.

The idea that countries like France and Germany are doing so much better under the Euro than the UK is (having decided not to join) is the idea of someone who hasn't got any kind of grip on facts or reality.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

irascian wrote:
The idea that countries like France and Germany are doing so much better under the Euro than the UK is (having decided not to join) is the idea of someone who hasn't got any kind of grip on facts or reality.

Right... they're doing waaay better than us Smiley

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

The whole point of a union is that you act as a united group. That means that you have to take the poorer countries along with the richer ones. If you aren't willing to do that, then why even have an EU? Is the UK out of the EU entirely? If so, then fine, but if not, you have to suck it up. The disadvantage of the Euro might be outweighed by the negotiating power of all of europe.

It would be a sad day if things went back to the mini-feifdoms of the past 50 years or so.

irascian
Irascible Ian

ScanIAm wrote:

The whole point of a union is that you act as a united group.

But the EU doesn't. That's the whole point and one wonders if it ever could. I can't recall the exact figures but I think something like 40% of the total budget goes to the Common Agricultural Policy. And guess who gets most of that (clue it's not shared amongst a united group).

The arguments for/against the "united group" have been done to death in the press over the last few weeks and I don't intend to repeat them all here, but George Orwell's "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" is here today and embodied in the "united" group of Europe.

Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.

Hmm should we just not start a new thread on this one called "Why I hate the EU" ???

Personally, I think the EU is a good idea ... but we all need a new rule book.

The last few weeks have shown how silly politics in Europe can be. Take for example the French President blaming the No vote on the UK. Now thats just point-scoring away from the issue, which was he lost the vote because he under-estimated his opposition so rather than be straight with his country he started to spin.

The USA and China must be laugh their collective a*ses off right now.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Sabot wrote:
Personally, I think the EU is a good idea ... but we all need a new rule book

Speaking of which, I'm not voting on this whole "constitution" thing... mainly because I haven't seen the consitution, nor do I know where you can see it.

Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.

Beer28 wrote:

Sabot wrote: The UK Government gateway is being built by many partners that including Microsoft and some of their Gold Partners such as Solidsoft.

Microsoft software is not "fit for any purpose", so they say.
There should be some kind of petition that makes Microsoft explicitly liable for all damages to people using the ID card system, that arises from the use of their software.

Beer let's not even go there!

... and the relevance to the thread in your post is where?

Sometimes your inane posts really make you look absurd.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

Anywho, back to the thread.

Part of the problem may be that each country in the union still has autonomy whereas the US, we have State government.

Some of the powers reside in the state, some in the federal (National), but there would be no way for, say, Wyoming, to quit following federal orders.

It was tried, and we had our Civil War and we're still dealing with the issue.

It could be that some of the reasons that the higher ups (Pres of France, PM of UK, whatever of Netherlands, etc.) are balking at the whole EU is that they will lose some power and/or autonomy.

Tom Servo
W-hat?

FFS, BEER28! STOP CRYING ABOUT MICROSOFT ALL THE TIME THEY DO SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, FOR LIKE ACTUALLY JUST BEING THERE!

Christ.

Anyway, would the British government actually fold to public pressure? When Belgium started drafting the eID, they were considering biometrics, too, but various people said "No", so they scratched that. For how long however is a different matter, because the EU is considering to make biometrics mandatory, because there's so much terrorists everywhere ( :rolleyes: )

zzzzz
Yes its an Economy vehicle

Sorry to hear the national ID card is so close to happening in Britian...

I enjoyed being in London more than all the cities i visted in Europe.

Orwell was off by 21 years it seems

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

zzzzz wrote:
Sorry to hear the national ID card is so close to happening in Britian...

I enjoyed being in London more than all the cities i visted in Europe.

Orwell was off by 21 years it seems

Orwell's problem was that he didn't see Corporations becoming Big Brother. Private corporations have more data on us now than the Govt.

eddwo
Wheres my head at?

1984 may not have been set in 1984, the people were just led to believe it was still 1984. Kinda like the Matrix really. Wink

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

I want my Wall Sized TVs like in Fahrenheit 451 Smiley

dotnetjunkie

AndyC wrote:

So when you lose it, someone has access to EVERYTHING of yours. One card gives them complete control over your whole life. A single, solitary piece of plastic through which your entire existence can be tracked.

Do you really think it's a good idea to put that much power on a piece of plastic? People lose credit cards and bank cards every day, do you really believe that this e-ID card is any different?

Yes, it IS different, you obviously don't know the system and the technology behind it.
With the card alone, you can do almost nothing. I can give you my e-ID, and you won't know anything secret about my life. (And even on the card itself, addresses are no longer printed for example...)
Apart from the generic data such as name, date of birth, etc. there is NOTHING stored on the card itself!! Only encrypted digital certificates, that work with 512 and even 1024 bit keys!! So try to hack that! For every transaction or access to sensitive information, you have to enter a secure PIN code.
So once again, I can give you my card, but you won't be able to access anything that I wouldn't tell you in the first place. Smiley

AndyC

dotnetjunkie wrote:

So once again, I can give you my card, but you won't be able to access anything that I wouldn't tell you in the first place.

Next to pretty much every ATM (at least in the UK) there is a warning notice telling you to be careful of people trying to spy on your pin number. It's there because every day somebody's PIN gets compromised, the card duplicated and fraud committed.

And that's at an ATM, where people are more inclined to be cautious about what people around them are doing. If I'm having to type that same PIN in all over the place, then it's only increasing the likelyhood of someone compromising it. At the moment if someone gets there hands on my C9 login, they can post to C9 as me. Not desirable, but hardly something I'm going to lose sleep over. The idea that someone could then use that to access my bank account, medical records and so on is deeply disturbing.

Manip

Beer28 wrote:

Sabot wrote: The UK Government gateway is being built by many partners that including Microsoft and some of their Gold Partners such as Solidsoft.

Microsoft software is not "fit for any purpose", so they say.
There should be some kind of petition that makes Microsoft explicitly liable for all damages to people using the ID card system, that arises from the use of their software.

Very interesting thing to say as the Linux developers ALSO run away from any liability... It is even very clearly listed in the GPL that the developers aren't liable. So I say, lets make all the Linux contributers liable first as they seem to want it SO bad!

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

Beer28 wrote:

Microsoft software is not "fit for any purpose", so they say.

This again. I did wonder why you ignored me pointing out the redhat license says exactly the same thing.

Tensor
Im in yr house upgrading yr family

Ignoring this pointless futile repetative fork and gettign back to he topic...

Tom Servo wrote:

Anyway, would the British government actually fold to public pressure? When Belgium started drafting the eID, they were considering biometrics, too, but various people said "No", so they scratched that. For how long however is a different matter, because the EU is considering to make biometrics mandatory, because there's so much terrorists everywhere ( :rolleyes: )

Opinion on ID cards seems divided. On one hand most people are pro ID cards on "nothing to hide nothing to fear" grounds, but on the other hand no-one wants to have to pay for them.

Unions are putting pressure on Labour MPS to vote no. What might swing it to no is that it is going to cost an awful lot of money, and might not work.

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

Tensor wrote:

Unions are putting pressure on Labour MPS to vote no. What might swing it to no is that it is going to cost an awful lot of money, and might not work.

And it looks like the cost may be offset by selling your details to private companies.

Tensor
Im in yr house upgrading yr family

blowdart wrote:

Tensor wrote:
Unions are putting pressure on Labour MPS to vote no. What might swing it to no is that it is going to cost an awful lot of money, and might not work.

And it looks like the cost may be offset by selling your details to private companies.

There is a reason I dont have a supermarket loyalty card - now the government wants to pimp out my details for me. Hurray!

Xenon101

Having read up even more on the objections proposed by NO2ID I decided to sign. £10 isn't much if it WILL prevent the ID card scheme,

I don't think anyone can possibly support this from the british public, £85 for a bloody piece of plastic? (£40 if you don't want to be allowed to leave the uk)...jesus what are these pickles thinking?

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

Xenon101 wrote:
Having read up even more on the objections proposed by NO2ID I decided to sign. £10 isn't much if it WILL prevent the ID card scheme,

I don't think anyone can possibly support this from the british public, £85 for a bloody piece of plastic? (£40 if you don't want to be allowed to leave the uk)...jesus what are these pickles thinking?

Yeah, um, did you give NO2ID your mailing address?

Don't fool yourself into thinking they won't sell your address Smiley

I donated to the Kerry campaign in the US and I've received massive amounts of "Please Donate" spam from it...

Tom Servo
W-hat?

I've heard people would have to pay £93 out of their own pocket for that ID card? The UK government must be kidding you all, the belgian government wants 10euro for their electronic ID card.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

Moderately Clever animation on the issue Smiley

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