Posted By: ninjagarden | Aug 13th, 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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Comments: 126 | Views: 33023
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
trolane wrote:
we need mass removal of ipod users and firefox users.


I'm guessing the "trol" in your name signifies something Wink
Jorgie
Jorgie
Jorgie
Orbit86 wrote:
not really, the indexing doesn't do anything, Google desktop didn't come out b4 Spotlight..


???? Indexing does't do anything? Are you nuts? If you turn it on and let it finish you can then do full text searches of all the index files on your system using explorer search function. How is that not doing anything? That is all spotlight does!

Jorgie
Cider
Cider
Daze-d & Confused
ninjagarden wrote:
I'd say he had integrity before he started at Microsoft, but lately it's been lacking somewhat. 

Look at his rant a couple of months ago against BoingBoing where he accused them of not correcting a blog entry that turned out to be wrong (which Scoble never does!) even though they had an update for the story on their main page! 

I have a lot of respect for Cory D. at BoingBoing and Scoble attacking looked really unprofessional.



The rules changed a hell of a lot since he joined Microsoft though, and the reader of his blog should take that in consideration.

Exactly what do you want from his blog?  Berating Microsoft products saying people should not buy them?  Look, it might say "this is my opinion, not Microsoft's" on the blog but he says that and it will still be written up in The Register by Orlowski that "Microsoft blogger tells people not to use Microsoft" and he'll still get fired by Microsoft.  For good reason!  It doesn't matter if you are the CEO or work in the company cafeteria, you say the company's products are "crap", you will have to stand down or be fired (in Britain, we have seen this before and even has a name:  "Ratner-ed", named after  Gerald Ratner, the CEO of jewellery firm Ratner's, who jokingly said all his company's products were "crap").
Jorgie wrote:
How is that not doing anything? That is all spotlight does!


I thought index server was decoupled from the actual file writes, whereas Spotlight is a modification of the file system.

edit: spotlight isn't *in* the filesystem, it just gets notified immediately on a file write.
erik_
erik_
Tablet Power

Who in the hell is stopping you from using other company's products?

If Robert tells you to buy a tabletPC, you directly run to the store and buy one? Or think, hmm those are expencive, let me just disagree with Robert that I need one now.

If you are really implementing and deploying the Microsoft Platform and get turned off because one of the 60.000 people that work there tell things you disagree on, then you should for sure get a the real human 2005 award. Go tell you clients, that you are sorry but some Microsoft employee told some bad stuff about a product that you are using and that, well, you are no longer going to support there just invested 500.000 dollar project. Just notice how real human those people will respond...

Btw. can you list those threads where he responds so heavily anti-firefox? Because I am unable to find them.

Jeremy W
Jeremy W
that blogging guy
Orbit86 wrote:
then whats the difference than longhorn? the indexing doesn't work..Windows Desktop Search does...


What indexing "doesn't work"? WIS works just fine. It's just an option that you need to turn on.

And, yes, there was desktop search before Spotlight. Geeze. Apple: "we steal in order to innovate".
Andre Da Costa
Andre Da Costa
Created with PhotoDraw 2000 V2
If I worked at Microsoft, I would do the same as Scoble, or even worse.
This thread was started at 3:04 PM EST by someone who is not your average garden troll, but one who writes everyday

Last update: Saturday, August 13, 2005 at 3:18 PM Eastern.




Mean International Software Monopoly 
Some at Microsoft complain they don't like the name RSS and propose to change it to something they like better. Then Scoble posted a note saying we had learned what CD and DVD mean, no one tried to change those names. Then, reading an article today about Yahoo making a $1 billion investment in Alibaba, a Chinese portal, I wondered why doesn't Microsoft try to change Yahoo's name. It would be easy for the browser to replace all occurrences of the string Yahoo with something like "Web Portal Based in California." And what about Google's name? Change it to "Search Engine with Aspirations in Operating Systems." Now that would be a lot clearer! It goes on and on. Change Quicken to "Commerce company we tried to buy." Oracle becomes "Larry Ellison's database company." Netscape changes to "Crime scene." The hits keep coming.

Then it struck me, like a lightning bolt between the eyes, what about Microsoft? Maybe that name made sense when it was run by geeks for geeks, but geez, now it's an international software monopoly. What's so micro about it? Let's see, what should they change their name to? (See the title of this post for a clue.)

Heh heh heh. Very funny. Microsoft can't change those names because they already mean something, and they'd get hauled into court and would have to pay damages to the companies for trying to undermine their businesses. Now, there's no one to haul them into court for screwing with RSS, which is too bad, because they deserve to lose this case, but they will pay a price, because all their hard work in RSS will be for naught. How can you claim to support a feature when the name of the feature appears nowhere?

They'll learn two important lessons. 1. Don't screw around with things you didn't create and don't understand and 2. If you're serious about working with a community of independent developers you need to build trust, and throwing your weight around stupidly is a good way to destroy trust and to keep developers far far away from you.

Pick your battles, Microsoft. This is a dumb one.

Microsoft and fear

I can just hear the wheels turning at Microsoft, thinking how they'll screw me for daring to have an opinion contrary to theirs. This isn't paranoia, it's really how their logic works. I got to see this from Scoble, who is a friend, but also a member of the hive. He once said to me about some initiative that I was balking at, that Harvard will regret not supporting it because they'll go to one of our competitors. I had a good laugh at his expense, and because he's a friend, I shared it with him.

I told him that Harvard doesn't see things that way. The institution has been around since 1636, has a huge endowment, it's a winner, it's not going away. It's the Microsoft of academia, only more so. If you think Microsoft is arrogant, try coming to Harvard sometime.

In other words, there are some people you can't initimidate, because you don't control them, you have to work with them if you want their support, they don't respond to threats.

Cider
Cider
Daze-d & Confused
So this ninja character is Dave Winer, then?
"Quit your bitc*h*in, moaning whining and pissin".

Someone famous once said that.
Steve.
erik_
erik_
Tablet Power
Orbit86 wrote:
erik_ wrote: Who in the hell is stopping you from using other company's products?If Robert tells you to buy a tabletPC, you directly run to the store and buy one? Or think, hmm those are expencive, let me just disagree with Robert that I need one now.If you are really implementing and deploying the Microsoft Platform and get turned off because one of the 60.000 people that work there tell things you disagree on, then you should for sure get a the real human 2005 award. Go tell you clients, that you are sorry but some Microsoft employee told some bad stuff about a product that you are using and that, well, you are no longer going to support there just invested 500.000 dollar project. Just notice how real human those people will respond...Btw. can you list those threads where he responds so heavily anti-firefox? Because I am unable to find them.
scobleizer said:
I think this was to be expected. First of all, building markets is extremely tough work. Second of all, I think Firefox was overhyped. People thought it was secure, but lately there were a bunch of exploits that were reported on it. So, that took away its oxygen supply.


He is not saying it is not secure there. He tells you that he expected the market share to drop again and that he thinks firefox was overhyped. Then explains why it was overhyped and how the hype dropped.

What is anti-firefox about that?

Me neither got hacked into or anything and I am using Internet explorer while a lot of people call it insecure, what is your point?


Michael Griffiths
Michael Griffiths
Fatalism.
Of all the things to be angry at Robert Scoble about, I didn't expect this.

Huh.
Scoble doesn't trash other company's products!

What's so nice about Microsoft users is that they don't even feel the need to trash anything, because they can sell their products by their quality!  This is quite a contrast with people in the Linux/FF/... camp: most of them think they need to trash Windows and other MS products to make people switch to their products. That's a very negative attitude and very obnoxious and lame: you should sell your stuff by making it stand out from the competition and by highlighting its strenghts, not by destroying the competition!
Apache users trash IIS users all the time by saying that IIS is insecure etc...

MySQL users trash MS SQL by saying that it is too expensive etc... (or just because it is from "the evil M$")

Redhat users trash Windows users all the time by saying *insert zillions of "linux r0x0rz, window$ sucks" rants here*

...

You get the point?

The "get the facts" campaign didn't trash linux AT ALL!  It was just an overview of facts, and MS was forced to it by all the trashing and bashing they have to endure...
Minh
Minh
WOOH! WOOH!
eagle wrote:
That ninja guy is a friend of Roberts and he is really pissed at Microsoft right now.

I just read his blog, he is driving cross country and posted on his blog right after he loged on with a new user name here.
Are you serious? That's him? I happen to read the ninja guy's blog too. I must publicly apologize to him. Seems that I've said things about him in the past without getting all the facts. Sorry, Dav... uh... Ninja guy.

PS. Post with your real name when criticizing. Otherwise, you'd just look like a p***y.
I like Scoble. He is a lot more reasonable than many fanboys who will never get a paycheck from Microsoft.

Give the guy some credit. He puts up with all my posts complaining about Microsoft.  That ain't easy. Smiley
NeoTOM
NeoTOM
OMG WTF REDESIGN
PEOPLE HAVE :'(PINIONS
rjdohnert
rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure
Beer28 wrote:
I think Scoble's at microsoft for the money. He's been there an aweful long time, but I still think he's only there for the bling bling.
He has a light, sort of carefree attitude that only comes from somebody that shows up to work because they're supposed to be there.

I don't blame him one bit. And as for his rants about Microsoft stuff being better? That's what they pay him for.
If they paid you 80 grand a year to sit there and write nicities about their products on your blog and attend PR lunchins as a job, you'd probably do it too.

I wouldn't, but I'm another story.


I dont get paid to write nice about Microsoft and their products.  Yet, I do because they do make some good products.  I think some of their actions have gone the way of stupid lately.  As for Scoble, hell I like his blog.  Im glad Microsofts letting their employees blog.   I have been reading Scobles blogs and posts for a long time and he doesnt bash any other products.  Firefox has a security issue  Im very glad someone out there acknowledges it instead of trying to obscure it and deny the security issues exist (subliminal thought: Linux community).
having met Robert at the Microsoft Home in London (come on Robert when is the video out:) )
and while I don't agree with him 100% all the time  personally I have no problem with him

Ian
scobleizer
scobleizer
I'm the video guy

>ninjagardgen: I can't even read Channel 9 anymore without seeing him on a thread trashing stuff that isn't made by Microsoft

Huh? You obviously haven't read my blog. I say nice things about Google, Apple, Yahoo, and others all the time. You do note that a lot of the things I hype up on my blog are also running on Linux servers, right?

>nanite: maybe he should stop jumping all over google and firefox whenever they make a mistake.

I was one of the first to come out and say I like Firefox and use it. Tell me, do employees of Coca Cola come and say they like Pepsi products? Doing this is very dangerous in corporate America. Do you even have a job?

>Manip: However I do not at all like what he does, blogging is lame, it is like journalism without any real legal or moral incentive to make sure it is accurate.

Manip, that demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of blogging. If you aren't accurate you get ragged on and your reputation suffers. Oh, and people start threads in Channel 9 like this one. Smiley

>Beer28: I think Scoble's at microsoft for the money.

Beer: I've turned down several jobs this past year for more money (at least one of them for a LOT more money). If what you said were true, I would have left. I make less than $100,000 a year and a good chunk of that goes to my ex-wife in alimony and child-support payments. This isn't particularly lucrative, particularly when you're working for (and around) billionaires.

>irascian: Scoble has been extremely critical of certain Microsoft decisions and has continually hyped non-Microsoft products.

Thank you for noticing! I might not be out there like Mini-Microsoft, but I'm the only Microsoft employee I know of that has been quoted in Time Magazine saying I'd split up the company if it were up to me.

>ninjagarden: Look at his rant a couple of months ago against BoingBoing where he accused them of not correcting a blog entry that turned out to be wrong (which Scoble never does!) even though they had an update for the story on their main page! 

Ninja: you have demonstrated again that you do not actually read my blog. I regularly say I'm wrong and correct my posts.

>Jeremy W: He doesn't make that much money. He drives a Focus. He dresses in jeans and T shirts more than half the time.

Yup. Covered above.

>Jorgie: As for the “style” of the videos, there is a lot more then “style” that makes them different from a normal marketing video.

Thanks for noticing. My style pisses off a lot of "professional marketers" because they think everything should be slick and produced and not conversational. Many companies don't want to hear from their customers (or talk with them). Even many companies in our industry.

>Koorb: I don't read his blog because he doesn't post anything interesting or insightful, I usually find it to be regurgitated opinions or viewpoints, but since there are so many blogs out on the internet I question the sanity of anybody who reads a blog they don't like.

Hmmm, well, I don't know what blog you're reading, but it doesn't sound like mine. But, you're absolutely right. There's an unsubscribe button on every RSS aggregator I've seen. It's there for a reason.

>Beer28: I just get the impression that it's merely his job and that he's not really into microsoft.

Beer, um, don't know what gave you that impression. Does everyone need to be a corporate syncophant to be seen as "into his company?" I work 90 hour weeks. I don't have to. No one is asking me to. My blog is done at nights and on weekends. I'm answering your post here at 1:03 a.m. on Sunday morning. Is that the behavior of someone who isn't into the industry and company he works for?

>erik_: Btw. can you list those threads where he responds so heavily anti-firefox? Because I am unable to find them.

Erik, Firefox advocates are just like Macintosh advocates. If you say ANYTHING against those products you will be called the worst of names. It comes with the territory. They don't give you credit for the nice things I've said about Firefox.

>Orbit86: I'm sure Scoble doesn't even care loll

Orbit: I do care about how people view me. It's a weakness of mine, actually. But, imagine you're at a party and people are saying what a jerk you are over at the next table. Tell me you wouldn't care. That said, I wrote the Corporate Weblog Manifesto before I came to Microsoft and one of the rules I put in there is "have a thick skin." It's one of the harder rules to follow.

>Minh: Are you serious? That's him? I happen to read the ninja guy's blog too.

It's not Dave Winer. Sorry.

>rjdohnert: I think some of their actions have gone the way of stupid lately.

RJ: if I agree with you will Beer think that I'm really not into Microsoft? See, how do you change a company? Is it by pretending everything is perfect? Or is it by admitting things are messed up and working to fix them?

Yes, I haven't been out there enough lately pushing the boundaries, but come on, there are many companies in our industry where I would have already gotten fired for doing what I do.

fatboy_au
fatboy_au
itnewslog.com

Keep up the great work Robert! You do a fantastic job allowing us to get an insight into what Microsoft are doing. I've been reading your blog and watching your Channel9 videos for a year and a bit now and I am very grateful for your contributions.

-Cameron McBride

www.msinbox.com

Cybermagellan
Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything
scobleizer wrote:
there are many companies in our industry where I would have already gotten fired for doing what I do.


See my post where Scoble was one of the first people to answer and actually give advice on the subject (BTW: Thanks again).

Yeah I've been instructed if I say my companies name and the word "beta" in the same blog I am terminated...no If's, And's or Butts.

Scoble welcome back from your vacation...I look forward to reading somemore postings from you. I agree about the Firefox statement. It's like that with anyone who blindly follows a project though. As you've seen I'm sure with other post "We can do no wrong" is something typical of Apple, Firefox, and Linux people...there is something a few of my friends have said at work and that is "You can always tell a linux user...You just can't tell them much". I've used Linux and there are good and bad points and I own a Mac, and I own a PC...so to that extent I am playing devils advocate here and saying nothing is perfect. Not MS,Apple, or any Linux distro out there.

I think the whole week off you took (Which you still stopped in and made a post or two) was well deserved because you do care a little much about what people think (Mind you the "This is rediculous post") which can take it's toll on you after awhile.

hehe, I dunno WHY you turned down other jobs which pay more than what you currently make but that is your decision. I know people where I work that have been in the position they are at for 5 years and have turned down promotions because they LOVE what they do. Sadly I have a family...I can grow to love something else that pays more as well.

I noticed with your videos (Especially the Windows Mobile video) that your not about the "Produced by t3h Scobleizer" or whatever. I didn't like in that video how the project manager introduced himself and I loved it when whoever was filming told him to knock it off. People like real, Shareholders like "glossy".

Welcome back and I hope to see more and great things come from your blog and such.
scobleizer
scobleizer
I'm the video guy
Thanks, Cameron! I really appreciate the kind support.
scobleizer
scobleizer
I'm the video guy
Cybermagellan: That was me doing that interview in that mobile video. Thanks. I try to make sure they stay conversational and not scripted. Humans always think they need to act when a camera is aimed at them. Go to a tourist spot sometime. Most people, when they have a camera aimed at them, start posing. That makes the most boring photos possible. Same with video.

Beer: after I was in my car accident a few years back (and went through my divorce) I looked at where I was going. To me it's not about the money. It's about making people's lives better. There is no other industry that is making people's lives better in a more dramatic way than the technology industry. And, there's one company that stands at the top of that industry. I'm there.

I also have a job to die for. I pinch myself every day that I get to go and hang out with geeks, talk about technology, and record that, and get paid for it.

I won't leave Microsoft for "just money." Well, unless it just gets ridiculous. At some point money does matter, doesn't it?

But, if it's only 50% or double, then the rest of the package better measure up too. There are a lot of benefits to working at Microsoft. I've worked at other companies, big and small (NEC, for instance, has twice as many employees) and Microsoft is a lot better than the other ones I've worked at.

I also have a great reputation going inside the company, I work with great people, I have a fun routine down, and I'm doing something I absolutely love.

The other jobs just didn't make me that interested.

Thanks!
Keyvan Nayyeri
Keyvan Nayyeri
VB.NET?! Oh my favorite!
Oh , No !
I'm not agree with you. It's not fairy!
I found him as a geek Wink
He shows me new things every day.
As it's very important I posted about it here Big Smile
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