Will tabs in IE7 confuse users? | The Coffeehouse

Wells

I remember hearing that the reason the IE team didn't consider a tabbed interface for so long was because it broke the GUI guidelines and the user's expectations.

Whether that was speculation or not, it raises the question: will users get confused?

I always like to think of my poor Mum when it comes to UI issues. And I know for a fact that if she clicks a link and it opens in a new tab, she will not notice it.

If anything, she'll look to the taskbar - where she has learnt to look for missing windows.

What do you guys think? Is this gonna cause problems for your average joe user, or will my mum even be able to figure it out?

irascian
Irascible Ian

Unless I'm missing something tabs are not turned on by default?

I'm assuming that users clever enough to work out how to turn them on are those that will really want to use them and will have no problem figuring them out.

Personally I think most people like your poor Mum won't bother turning them on.

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

I agree with irascian...

In IE7 the tabs are designed so that if you trigger a tab...you'd know it.

Tommy4

irascian wrote:
Unless I'm missing something tabs are not turned on by default?

I'm assuming that users clever enough to work out how to turn them on are those that will really want to use them and will have no problem figuring them out.

Personally I think most people like your poor Mum won't bother turning them on.

Tabs are on by default, and they will only confuse the confused.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Wells wrote:
I remember hearing that the reason the IE team didn't consider a tabbed interface for so long was because it broke the GUI guidelines and the user's expectations

That's rich. Considering they decided to relocate the menu bar BELOW the address bar. That, if anything, is going to confuse the users more than the tabs.

irascian
Irascible Ian

Tommy4 wrote:

Tabs are on by default, and they will only confuse the confused.

I beg to differ!

I'm using IE7 here and the only time I've ever seen a new tab is when I've gone to the File menu and specifically requested "New Tab".

Tommy4

Maybe we are talking about the same thing, what I consider default is that it is available with no additions. When I see a link I want to open I right click and say open in new tab. Or if I wish to open a new tab with IE all I have to do is click the next tab. I do not have to go to file to get a new tab all i have to do is click the quarter size tab next to the current one. Not sure what you mean by default but that is what I consider on by default.

TiAdiMundo

There where tabs (or call it register cards) for a long time in the windows ui (in dialog boxes or in Excel). And if Microsoft is clever, they will be integrate tabs in the standard explorer shell (and think of tabs for the desktop, so you could easily use more dektops, like you can in Linux). But the designers must use the rules of the Windows ui and they doesnt do this in the ie7 beta.

Tommy4

taken from http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/05/26/422103.aspx

Our philosophy for tabbed browsing is to keep the user in control of the experience. Tabs are on by default in IE7 Beta 1, but for those that do not want to use them they shouldn't be intrusive and there's a setting to turn them off and reclaim the screen real estate if desired.

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

W3bbo wrote:

Wells wrote: I remember hearing that the reason the IE team didn't consider a tabbed interface for so long was because it broke the GUI guidelines and the user's expectations

That's rich. Considering they decided to relocate the menu bar BELOW the address bar. That, if anything, is going to confuse the users more than the tabs.

Nah. I remember the reasoning behind that was to make it more familiar to the user. It prompts the user to a "filemenu per tab" scenario rather than a global file menu. Creating two distinct menus would just look messy.

mVPstar

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

W3bbo wrote:
That's rich. Considering they decided to relocate the menu bar BELOW the address bar. That, if anything, is going to confuse the users more than the tabs.

I agree, first time I used it I was like "Wha? Where..um, that's dumb"

I always felt like something was wrong with it.

jamie

thats because there is something wrong with it: locked toolbars = loss of functionality

(all so everyone is forced to have a search bar in every window to inhibit going to google )

(ms line: its all about phishing! think of the children!)

btw - ive heard a few off the cuff remarks in articles along the lines of "for those that know what theyre doing - Longhorn (at the time) will be the most customizable windows yet"

i dont find that at all. No list view. Upsidedown un-moveable toolbars, sort left to right - not up and down

if its so customizable - why are these key features gone?

jamie

question for dave massey if he is reading this:

will the ie7 (for XP version) separate file windows (popup new window) and www. windows (popup new window) - or is that just in this beta - and the real version will have the same integration as XP does now.

Im just asking because if it isnt going to - you should have a warning: "IE7 removes Windows integration between web and local drives - continue?"

bsilby

W3bbo wrote:

Wells wrote: I remember hearing that the reason the IE team didn't consider a tabbed interface for so long was because it broke the GUI guidelines and the user's expectations

That's rich. Considering they decided to relocate the menu bar BELOW the address bar. That, if anything, is going to confuse the users more than the tabs.

Yeah, that *is* a dumb place for the menu bar. Totally contradicts all the talk about consistency etc.

Personally I don't like tabs. That's because I'm not used to using them. I've given them a go in Firefox--didn't like them, and decided to switch them off.

Tommy4

bsilby wrote:
contradicts all the talk about consistency etc.

Personally I don't like tabs. That's because I'm not used to using them. I've given them a go in Firefox--didn't like them, and decided to switch them off.

I had the same opion about tabs till I started to use them and found how great they were. You will like them once you really start with them. Keep an open mind.

Sven Groot
My name has 9 letters. Coincidence? I think not...

Tabs will confuse users. I've seen it. I'm running IE7 beta 1 here. Yesterday my brother's girlfriend needed to look something up. She had hotmail open in one tab, and in between she clicked a link that openened a new tab. She didn't understand how to get back to Hotmail. I told her "you have to click on the tab that says hotmail" and I just got a blank look. I couldn't get her to understand it until I demonstrated what she had to do.

EDIT: Also, I'm forcing myself to use tabs, but they still confuse the heck out of me! I keep losing stuff. I must really condition myself not to open a new window for stuff, because if I do, I end up with ten IE windows each with three or more tabs, meaning it takes me fifteen minutes of alt-tabbing before I remember that what I was looking for is open in a different tab, and then five minutes more before I find the window that tab is in. (times exaggerated for dramatic effect Smiley

)

brussell

I'm using IE7 in Windows Vista and my tabs were on by default so that when I click a link, they go to a new tab. At first, it was a bit confusing/needed a bit of getting used to, but now when I use IE6 on my XP machine, I find myself missing the tabs.
I hated the address bar being above the menu at first, but now I'm getting used to that too. And I do really like being able to put other toolbars on the menu bar. I've wanted to do that a long time since I have a wide screen, high resolution monitor and would prefer my windows to be a little wider and have all my toolbars in one row and leave more of the window avaible for other things.

I do think IE7 will confuse most, if not all, the home users I know. I think the tabs should be off by default or have some box or something come up that shows the users the new functionality. Even though they're nice after you figure them out and get used to them, they are very confusing and different for people who are used to seperate windows.

Maurits
AKA Matthew van Eerde

Sven Groot wrote:
I must really condition myself not to open a new window for stuff

If only there was a "never open a new window" pref...

jkirwan
carpe fermentum

Maurits wrote:
Sven Groot wrote:I must really condition myself not to open a new window for stuff

If only there was a "never open a new window" pref...

If only there was a "never open IE" pref. . . Wink

DMassy
Driving!

brussell wrote:
I'm using IE7 in Windows Vista and my tabs were on by default so that when I click a link, they go to a new tab. At first, it was a bit confusing/needed a bit of getting used to, but now when I use IE6 on my XP machine, I find myself missing the tabs.
I hated the address bar being above the menu at first, but now I'm getting used to that too. And I do really like being able to put other toolbars on the menu bar. I've wanted to do that a long time since I have a wide screen, high resolution monitor and would prefer my windows to be a little wider and have all my toolbars in one row and leave more of the window avaible for other things.

I do think IE7 will confuse most, if not all, the home users I know. I think the tabs should be off by default or have some box or something come up that shows the users the new functionality. Even though they're nice after you figure them out and get used to them, they are very confusing and different for people who are used to seperate windows.

As we have said before this first beta of IE7 is a technical preview and the user interface is not final. In fact it will probably change a great deal as the project proceeds. As with every software project I have ever worked on the early stages are focused on putting the infrastructure in place that we can build on later.
Tabs are on by default in IE7 so I'm not quite sure what irascian is referring to. We are well aware that this is new functionality to many Internet Explorer users. Our focus is on delivering a discoverable, usable and secure implementation around tabs. That means we are not done with this feature and we will be looking for feedback as we get to a more final user experience. In the first beta we are mostly interested in feedback from the technical community around compatibility.
Any change to the user experience in any product does tend to be greeted with mixed reactions. Some users are more resistant to change even when the change actually benefits productivity. Others embrace change as something new and exciting. One thing that is clear to me though is that we need an updated user experience for browsing the web. It may take a few releases to get there but what should the browsing experience be in ten years time? I hope it isn't identical to what we have in browsers today!

Thanks
-Dave

Sven Groot
My name has 9 letters. Coincidence? I think not...

DMassy wrote:
Some users are more resistant to change even when the change actually benefits productivity.

So tell me, how does moving the menu bar to a location that is contrary to every other Windows application for the last twenty years going to improve productivity? And even more, how is preventing me from moving it back a radical improvement? I've said this on the beta newsgroups as well: it only makes sense to put the menu bar there if it logically operates only on the current tab, not on the entire browser window. And that's maybe true for some of menu options, but for most, it isn't. And the one thing that really does operate on the current and not the entire window is the address bar and the back/forward buttons, and those are above the tabs! I don't claim to be an HCI expert, but this just doesn't make sense to me, at all.

So far it feels the change in toolbar location is just for the sake of change, and that is never a good reason to change anything.

Programous

In terms of UI, I think the way IE6 w/ MSN Toolbar dose it the best. But I do have to say nice job with RSS feed discovery + Reader in IE7

Maurits
AKA Matthew van Eerde

Sven Groot wrote:
So far it feels the change in toolbar location is just for the sake of change, and that is never a good reason to change anything.

I'm guessing it's below the tab bar to make plugin handling easier. So for example loading a .doc or a .pdf will give the Word or Acrobat menu instead of the IE menu.

DMassy
Driving!

Sven Groot wrote:

DMassy wrote: Some users are more resistant to change even when the change actually benefits productivity.

So tell me, how does moving the menu bar to a location that is contrary to every other Windows application for the last twenty years going to improve productivity? And even more, how is preventing me from moving it back a radical improvement? I've said this on the beta newsgroups as well: it only makes sense to put the menu bar there if it logically operates only on the current tab, not on the entire browser window. And that's maybe true for some of menu options, but for most, it isn't. And the one thing that really does operate on the current and not the entire window is the address bar and the back/forward buttons, and those are above the tabs! I don't claim to be an HCI expert, but this just doesn't make sense to me, at all.

So far it feels the change in toolbar location is just for the sake of change, and that is never a good reason to change anything.

We have heard the feedback about the positioning of toolbars and menus. I'll say again - THIS USER INTERFACE IS NOT FINAL. We knew the UI was not final when we released the first beta but feedback on the UI was not something we were focusing on in the first beta.
Thanks
-Dave

brussell

Sven Groot wrote:

DMassy wrote: Some users are more resistant to change even when the change actually benefits productivity.

So tell me, how does moving the menu bar to a location that is contrary to every other Windows application for the last twenty years going to improve productivity? And even more, how is preventing me from moving it back a radical improvement? I've said this on the beta newsgroups as well: it only makes sense to put the menu bar there if it logically operates only on the current tab, not on the entire browser window. And that's maybe true for some of menu options, but for most, it isn't. And the one thing that really does operate on the current and not the entire window is the address bar and the back/forward buttons, and those are above the tabs! I don't claim to be an HCI expert, but this just doesn't make sense to me, at all.

So far it feels the change in toolbar location is just for the sake of change, and that is never a good reason to change anything.

I belive I read somewhere it was put there for security reasons. Something about if it is above the other tool bars, websites can't spoof it.