salvo fired by Java! C#: Is the Party Over? | Tech Off

anilp

salvo fired by Java!

http://jdj.sys-con.com/read/117741.htm

Tensor
Im in yr house upgrading yr family

Couldnt give a monekys one way or another - i'll use whatever tools are the right ones at the time, but this guy has a huge chip on his shoulder, and is not what you would call very well versed in the facts.

the article wrote:

In addition, the underground community site, gotdotnet.org, has undergone significant site and management changes

underground. riiiiiiiiight.

the article wrote:

Is the C# party over? If the plan of C# was to slow the defection of Visual C++ developers to Java, then it was certainly better than nothing.

Yeah, that was its aim. Thats it. Sure. Perplexed

Antitorgo

Using C# to try and get people to defect to VC++? What crack is this guy smoking? Is he even a developer?

My language preference in this order:
C#
VC++
Java
VB.NET

I wonder what his response is to things like IronPython and RubyCLR? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0%2c1895%2c2001143%2c00.asp

To me, the JVM party is what is over. The CLR has it beat in so many ways... I just wish it ran on more platforms. Wink

jimMarriott

It looks as though something's gone screwy with the dates on the orginal article - it's dated this year but the responses it links to are from a year ago. I suspect this is an old article but that JDJ's Java based web-site has got a little overwhlemed with date-handling.

Perhaps they should have written the site in C# - as far as I can see it's momentum is growing while Java's fragmentation continues apace. Wink

jb43081

C# is stuggeling!?

Could have fooled me, out .NET business outnumbers our Java business by about four to one. And 90% of the .NET business is C#.

Think this guy just needs a nap or something, he seems kind of cranky. Wink

zhuo

.NET definitely have the upper hand in terms of job numbers downunder. At least that's my perception of the job market at current time.

The dude on that link really doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Ignore him.

Gambit

jimMarriott wrote:

Perhaps they should have written the site in C# - as far as I can see it's momentum is growing while Java's fragmentation continues apace.

LOL, that was my thought after the page loaded up so slowly..

DoomBringer
Doom!

I love how open source magically makes Java better. As if no one has written any OSS in C#

wkempf

Antitorgo wrote:

Using C# to try and get people to defect to VC++? What crack is this guy smoking? Is he even a developer?

My language preference in this order:
C#
VC++
Java
VB.NET

I wonder what his response is to things like IronPython and RubyCLR? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0%2c1895%2c2001143%2c00.asp

To me, the JVM party is what is over. The CLR has it beat in so many ways... I just wish it ran on more platforms.

Name a platform it doesn't run on that Java does.

There are some MS specific libraries missing, but the CLR is complete in Mono (as well as other's) and runs pretty much every where Java will.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

wkempf wrote:

Antitorgo wrote:
Using C# to try and get people to defect to VC++? What crack is this guy smoking? Is he even a developer?

My language preference in this order:
C#
VC++
Java
VB.NET

I wonder what his response is to things like IronPython and RubyCLR? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0%2c1895%2c2001143%2c00.asp

To me, the JVM party is what is over. The CLR has it beat in so many ways... I just wish it ran on more platforms.

Name a platform it doesn't run on that Java does.

AIX 5.2.

wkempf wrote:

There are some MS specific libraries missing, but the CLR is complete in Mono (as well as other's) and runs pretty much every where Java will.

So you'd best be sure that you don't write code that uses those MS specific libraries.

I agree that the article is crap, but Mono is not all that it says it is.

wkempf

Mono is supposed to be supported on AIX.

As for the libraries... not really relevant. For every library that's MS specific, there's an alternate, portable, library.

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

It's a fact that the quality bar for tech articles / books are sometimes shockingly low.

Edit:

Article's author / Calvin Austin wrote:

One of my tasks at Sun was to keep abreast of the technologies in the marketplace that competed with Java. At certain points in the release we would summarize where we were compared to other technologies and, if necessary, focus on areas where we could improve.

Sun's stock price today 4.44

Nice going, Calvin. As a stock owner, I'd like to say "you're FIRED!"

dotnetjunkie

What a BS article, it's flawed in so many ways!
Can be classified in the trash bin, there is really nothing to discuss.

aoporto

To say C# is struggling would be the same as saying .NET is struggling. Utter nonsense. Microsoft has done a great job marketing both, and C# is my weapon of choice. The enhancements to the 2.0 framework are fantastic, and more mission critical apps are being written in .NET. The bottom line is, we should really be asking: Is the Java party over? The only chance they have is open sourcing Java, because Sun has blown all their chances so far at properly marketing it. I was at PDC '05, and the excitement over Vista and .NET 2.0 was huge. The momentum is now with .NET and LAMP, and I prefer .NET.

UlsterFry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_fry

Calvin Austin / Article Author wrote:

Calvin Austin commented on the 10 Nov 2005:
Its about 5 months since I wrote this article. Microsoft are now talking about C# 3.0, with even more language changes. No news on C# adoption from Microsoft.com, no customer cases, no customer testomonials on any kind on new launch pages.
Looks pretty lonely out there for C# developers.

Pretty lonely.. err right.. ...I think somebody has their head buried in the Java sandbox.

I'm not being biased, I've used Java and I often use PHP, but Calvin is clearly out of touch.

Another_Darren
... than you can shake a stick at

Calvin Austin / Article Author wrote:
Calvin Austin commented on the 10 Nov 2005:
Its about 5 months since I wrote this article. Microsoft are now talking about C# 3.0, with even more language changes. No news on C# adoption from Microsoft.com, no customer cases, no customer testomonials on any kind on new launch pages.
Looks pretty lonely out there for C# developers.

[/quote]

"even more language changes", and how many revisions of Java has there been? And remember the 2 to 5 leap because of the major changes to it.

"No news on C# adoption from Microsoft.com, no customer cases, no customer testomonials on any kind on new launch pages.", try reading an non-Java mag or web site idiot!

AdityaG
OMG VISTA FTW LOLZ!!1one

*reads article*

Sommmeone didn't get their PMS medication...

jb43081

DoomBringer wrote:
I love how open source magically makes Java better. As if no one has written any OSS in C#

All the Open Source people act likes it's some silver bullet that magically erases all possiblity to defects in a product, platform or language.

The problem is that when one does turn up, suddenly the finger pointing begins and noone is willing to take responsibility for it. If you can get them to acknowledge you at all...

Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.

anilp wrote:

salvo fired by Java!

http://jdj.sys-con.com/read/117741.htm

Hold the phone!

Take your finger of the red button!

Put the mega-phone down!

Holster your colt 45!

SCA & SDO is being developed by the Open SOA Collaboration, the members are basically the great and the good of the Java world, IBM, Oracle, SUN, BEA, IONA etc ...

Basically SCA and SDO will be an alternative to Java EE.

The reasons for SCA and SDO existence is because J2EE doesn't cut it and many vendors such as IBM have not been pleased with Java's progress.

The existence of SCA and SDO basically means that Java in it's current form's days are numbered ... and it's not .Net that killing it.

TimP

wkempf wrote:
Name a platform it doesn't run on that Java does.

z/OS

littleguru
<3 Seattle

This article is a fake, isn't it? Must be a fake...´

C# is under construction and java is fine tuning - haha. Who ever worked with generic java (before it was official part of the language, which I had the pleasure a few months before .NET 2.0 was released) had seen that a lot of the stuff in java isn't even settled after 10+ years of development.

I find C# and .NET in general (why is that guy speaking only of C#? - it is .NET) more settled then java ever was. Java has so much problems with different platforms and strange exceptions (NullPointerException - for example, who ever named it that way didn't understand OOP)...

Btw. Java (after 10+ years) isn't that much seen in wide spread programs. Let's see how many .NET program are going to be available in 5 years. Let's talk then.

leeappdalecom
.nettter

I think the major benefit to .Net over Java is the ease in which a company can get an application built at the lowest cost possible.

Lets face it most companys have windows as their desktop environment, say a company want to build a desktop application are they gonna employ a team of Java developers to spend 2 years building it at double the daily rate or a team of windows developers who could build it on .Net in half the time and a fraction of the cost?

I did a contract for a company who had 1 windows developer and the rest were perl, php, etc linux developers, now they wanted an application built which I did for them in 3 months, 1 guy 3 months work now say they wanted to built the same app on Linux their first problem would be finding a Linux dev contractor who fit their budget then choosing a language, framework etc etc.

Also in the enterprise server market, alot of companies are using windows theres too and alot are switching because .Net is a PROPER enterprise solution which definately pars J2EE but cost half the price to develop, maintain etc.