Multi-targeting in Express 2008?

Posted By: Nidonocu | Jul 30th, 2007 @ 4:16 PM
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Comments: 24 | Views: 2438
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 4:16 PM
Nidonocu
Nidonocu
The Poison Bunny

I just wanted to check that this rumor of no multi-targeting in Express 2008 wasn't true as I'm looking in to possibly switching up to using Visual C# Express 2008 Beta 2 for working on my WPF app now that the designers seem a lot more stable and the whole IDE a lot faster.

Will multi-targeting remain in the express editions in the RTM version? I'm currently pointing my program at just .net 3 rather than 3.5 as I don't want to push too much extra download on to my XP users in one go.

Can someone confirm the features are staying in the free versions of Visual Studio? Smiley

#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 4:47 PM
odujosh
odujosh
Need Microsoft SUX now!
The rumor is not true.
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 5:39 PM
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
Nidonocu wrote:
Will multi-targeting remain in the express editions in the RTM version? I'm currently pointing my program at just .net 3 rather than 3.5 as I don't want to push too much extra download on to my XP users in one go.


.NET3.5 is a new CLR and BCL version (woo & yay & hoopla for LINQ), .NET3.0, as you should know, is just those W*F libraries, it's all marketing, so if you're targeting .NET3 you're actually targeting .NET2

EDIT: Unless you already knew that, in which case I sound like patronising bastárd. My apologies.


#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 5:40 PM
CannotResolveSymbol
CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}
From Visual C# EE 2008 Beta 2:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 5:49 PM
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
CannotResolveSymbol wrote:
From Visual C# EE 2008 Beta 2:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


...but .NET3.0 doesn't contain a new BCL and the CLR's the same. So what exactly do you get by selecting 3.0?

//still using VS05
///but prefers VS03
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 5:51 PM
CannotResolveSymbol
CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}
W3bbo wrote:

CannotResolveSymbol wrote: From Visual C# EE 2008 Beta 2:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


...but .NET3.0 doesn't contain a new BCL and the CLR's the same. So what exactly do you get by selecting 3.0?

//still using VS05
///but prefers VS03


Hides the new libraries in .Net 3.0 from Intellisense, I assume (too lazy to check).

Nevertheless, the options there, so it probably does something Smiley
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 6:07 PM
nightski
nightski
Well if you target v3.5 of the framework it will require users to have 3.5 installed regardless if you use the new features or not.  So if you don't want to require your users to install v3.5, you select 3.0.
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 6:12 PM
dahat
dahat
W3bbo wrote:
.NET3.5 is a new CLR and BCL version (woo & yay & hoopla for LINQ), .NET3.0, as you should know, is just those W*F libraries, it's all marketing, so if you're targeting .NET3 you're actually targeting .NET2


Incorrect, 3.5 like 3.0 uses the 2.0 CLR.
#Jul 30th, 2007 @ 7:24 PM
Nidonocu
Nidonocu
The Poison Bunny

Thanks for the replies, though I did know which CLR's worked on what versions. Smiley

Is this a known issue by the way or just me?

When I try to run some of the tools:

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\SDK\v3.5\Bin>sgen

Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileLoadException: Could not load file or assembly 'sgen, Version=3.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a' or one of its dependencies. Strong name validation failed. (Exception from HRESULT:0x8013141A)
File name: 'sgen, Version=3.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a' ---> System.Security.SecurityException: Strong name validation failed. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8013141A)
The Zone of the assembly that failed was:
MyComputer

#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 3:35 AM
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
dahat wrote:

W3bbo wrote:.NET3.5 is a new CLR and BCL version (woo & yay & hoopla for LINQ), .NET3.0, as you should know, is just those W*F libraries, it's all marketing, so if you're targeting .NET3 you're actually targeting .NET2


Incorrect, 3.5 like 3.0 uses the 2.0 CLR.


Someone should create a version matrix.

Is this right then?


.NETBCLCLRCompilers
1.01.01.01.0
1.1
1.1
1.1
1.1
2.0
2.0
2.0
2.0
3.0
2.0
2.0
2.0
3.5
3.0
2.0
3.0
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:08 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
CannotResolveSymbol wrote:
From Visual C# EE 2008 Beta 2:



Except the OP is asking about *Express*

And there is no Express public beta right now is there?

Fankly it wouldn't surprise me if there was no multi-targetting, it's not really a hobby developer feature.
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:13 AM
dahat
dahat
W3bbo wrote:

dahat wrote: 
W3bbo wrote: .NET3.5 is a new CLR and BCL version (woo & yay & hoopla for LINQ), .NET3.0, as you should know, is just those W*F libraries, it's all marketing, so if you're targeting .NET3 you're actually targeting .NET2


Incorrect, 3.5 like 3.0 uses the 2.0 CLR.


Someone should create a version matrix.

Is this right then?


.NET BCL CLR Compilers
1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
1.1
 1.1
 1.1
 1.1
2.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.5
 3.0
 2.0
 3.0


I think this is closer:

.NET BCL CLR Compilers
1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
1.1
 1.1
 1.1
 1.1
2.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.0
 3.0
 2.0
 3.0
3.5
 3.5
 2.0
 3.5
... although I don't have a machine handy that I can check and am not 100% sure if there were any compiler changes with 3.0... however fully expect there were enough to rev the #.
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:17 AM
AndyC
AndyC
blowdart wrote:


And there is no Express public beta right now is there?



Um, yes, there is.

Haven't tried it to confirm/deny though.
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:24 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
AndyC wrote:

blowdart wrote:

And there is no Express public beta right now is there?



Um, yes, there is.

Haven't tried it to confirm/deny though.


Oh cool; must admit I'd never kept an eye on express.
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:30 AM
AndyC
AndyC
blowdart wrote:

Oh cool; must admit I'd never kept an eye on express.


No, normally I wouldn't either, but we're looking into running an XNA Express based course (including a lab full of 360s) so I've been paying slightly more attention than usual. Smiley
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:32 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
AndyC wrote:

blowdart wrote:
Oh cool; must admit I'd never kept an eye on express.


No, normally I wouldn't either, but we're looking into running an XNA Express based course (including a lab full of 360s) so I've been paying slightly more attention than usual. Smiley


I doubt work would let me get that from my training budget Big Smile

You going to speak on it at DDD5?
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:36 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
dahat wrote:

W3bbo wrote:
dahat wrote: 
W3bbo wrote: .NET3.5 is a new CLR and BCL version (woo & yay & hoopla for LINQ), .NET3.0, as you should know, is just those W*F libraries, it's all marketing, so if you're targeting .NET3 you're actually targeting .NET2


Incorrect, 3.5 like 3.0 uses the 2.0 CLR.


Someone should create a version matrix.

Is this right then?


.NET BCL CLR Compilers
1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
1.1
 1.1
 1.1
 1.1
2.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.5
 3.0
 2.0
 3.0


I think this is closer:

.NET BCL CLR Compilers
1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
1.1
 1.1
 1.1
 1.1
2.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.0
 3.0
 2.0
 3.0
3.5
 3.5
 2.0
 3.5
... although I don't have a machine handy that I can check and am not 100% sure if there were any compiler changes with 3.0... however fully expect there were enough to rev the #.


Yea, the fact that you can run .net 2.0 and 3.0 and 3.5 applications in the same App Pool in IIS points to additions, not changes
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:46 AM
W3bbo
W3bbo
The Master of Baiters
blowdart wrote:

dahat wrote:I think this is closer:

.NET BCL CLR Compilers
1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
1.1
 1.1
 1.1
 1.1
2.0
 2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.0
 3.0
 2.0
 3.0
3.5
 3.5
 2.0
 3.5
... although I don't have a machine handy that I can check and am not 100% sure if there were any compiler changes with 3.0... however fully expect there were enough to rev the #.


Yea, the fact that you can run .net 2.0 and 3.0 and 3.5 applications in the same App Pool in IIS points to additions, not changes


Maybe I should change that table a bit. How's this?

.NET mscorlibBCL CLR CSC
1.0 1.0
1.0 1.0 1.0
1.1
 1.1
1.1
 1.1
 1.1
2.0
 2.0
2.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.0
 2.0
3.0
 2.0
 2.0
3.5
 3.0
3.5
 2.0
 3.0

Where the 3.0 BCL is mscorlib2.0 plus WCF/WWF/WPF.

I also note .NET3.0 lacks aspnet_regiis. Does 3.5?
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 4:47 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
W3bbo wrote:

I also note .NET3.0 lacks aspnet_regiis. Does 3.5?


Well 3.0 doesn't need it of course, it's just extra libraries. Actually what BCL changes were there?
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 5:19 AM
AndyC
AndyC
blowdart wrote:

I doubt work would let me get that from my training budget Big Smile

You going to speak on it at DDD5?


Well, it'll be part of a degree course, at least initially anyway. Though you never know we might run external courses over the summer if there is demand.

No speaking at DDD5 though. I'm looking into strictly from a sysadmin POV at the moment, though hopefully I'll get chance to play with XNA properly at some point - just need to squeeze a few more hours into the day!
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 7:56 AM
odujosh
odujosh
Need Microsoft SUX now!
Someone asked what the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is. But before I go into that I wanted to respond to: 3.0 is just marketing.

First of all 3.0 is free. Yes free. So how could 3.0 be a marketing tool. -20 coolness points for being silly like nixers and macmavens that frequent this Microsoft site. (C9 v 4 needs a user rating system based off coolness points)

.NET 3.0 adds a few dlls also known as assemblies. It doesn't change any existing asseblies. So effectively changing your multitargeting to 3.0 selection adds references to dlls that give you:

*Windows Communication Foundation (Replaces Remoting, Enterprise services and other previous attempts at SOAP based messaging)

*Work Flow: An engine for writing persistable work flows.

*Windows Presentation Foundation: A new windows forms framework that allows increased composibility and use of directx.

*Cardspace: A token based authenication system that hopefully one day replaces usernames and passwords.

3.5 is a bigger step:
*It adds more DLLs.
*Makes non breaking changes (additive) to existing DLLs.
*Changes the C#/VB/your language compiler out for one that supports 3.5 which adds keywords, concepts, etc.
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 8:39 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
odujosh wrote:
Someone asked what the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is. But before I go into that I wanted to respond to: 3.0 is just marketing.

First of all 3.0 is free. Yes free. So how could 3.0 be a marketing tool.


Simple; people try it out, fiddle, feel happy, recommend it to management. It also turns out more MS "developers".
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 8:41 AM
blowdart
blowdart
Peek-a-boo
odujosh wrote:


*Cardspace: A token based authenication system that hopefully one day replaces usernames and passwords.


Oh and to be pedanic, no it doesn't. It adds WPF support, and MS supply some extra code seperatly to plug into WPF to provide an Information Card parser for relying parties and identity providers.

Cardspace is the client built into windows, but it's just an implementation of an Information Card identity selector.
#Jul 31st, 2007 @ 8:49 AM
odujosh
odujosh
Need Microsoft SUX now!
blowdart wrote:

odujosh wrote: Someone asked what the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is. But before I go into that I wanted to respond to: 3.0 is just marketing.

First of all 3.0 is free. Yes free. So how could 3.0 be a marketing tool.


Simple; people try it out, fiddle, feel happy, recommend it to management. It also turns out more MS "developers".


Is this a complete thought? Not sure I know what your getting at.
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