Comment Feed for IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete (Charles on Channel 9)

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

Yankee — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 04:53:02 GMT

Damn, hen it comes to browsers... all the topics are "IE vs FF" :)
Don't know about others, but I'm happy with IE and I'm glad that it respects the standards. I had no problems with IE.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

Jigar Mehta — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:18:34 GMT

how about taking a look at some situations like this,
http://jigar-mehta.blogspot.com/2008/01/would-you-believe-internet-explorer.html

:)

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

vshamanovsky — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:38:05 GMT

Would love to get my hands on this baby! Is it available anywhere yet ????

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

brwalias — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:05:58 GMT

Kudos to the dev team! :D

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

marius.fanu — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:42:53 GMT

It's stange that IE get ACID 2 Test work only for IE8 while it already works for Safari 3 Beta, and Opera 9.5 Beta... the strangest part of this is that it doesn't work on IE7 (almoust all people) or on Firefox 2.0.0.11. How is that the more used browsers doesn't have support for the ACID2 tests...

Anyway good job with the IE8 and keep it that way... (good :P)

Hope the performance of rendering will be improved...

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

Christian Liensberger — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 01:39:43 GMT

I'm thrilled!! Way to go :) Nice work, IE team!

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

ebegoli — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 04:15:59 GMT

Fantastic and very (professionally) exciting news for all web developers.

When can we expect alpha, beta ...?

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

rogergordon — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:31:13 GMT

I registered on this site just to say congratulations and thank you very much for this. This will make MANY developers across the world very happy indeed. Thanks for your hard work!!!!

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

Dorian Muthig — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:41:53 GMT

Siyavash wrote:
Now, make me a REAL password manager and a REAL cookie manager ( Deny cookies until I CHOOSE to accept [optional ofcourse] ) and REAL "Customize each site:javascript/pluginst enabled/disabled, cookies etc" like Opera...

...and I'll switch back to IE!

You have the site zones, where you can restrict sites access and add them to a list, you can also define a default rule, too.
Except for the password manager (which would require starting regedit as a service with taskplaner) it's better than in Firefox. :)

Re: Will it pass ACID2 test if Default Font changed to Cambria?

Bas — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:18:39 GMT

alexmog wrote:
I know a lot about ACID2 by now , there isn't anything there that would depend on choice of font...

I wonder then why Firefox 3 Beta 2 fails when you change the font. Did they use dirty hacks? :P

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

earnshaw — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:49:07 GMT

So, Web sites written for standards-compliant IE8 will run very well on standards-compliant Brand X browsers as well? That's unheard of! Practically the end of the Soviet era as we know it.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

LightRider — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:42:58 GMT

Congratulations IE team! Good news. I hope to hear more great annoucements going forward.

Re: Will it pass ACID2 test if Default Font changed to Cambria?

Soe Tun — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:37:27 GMT

alexmog wrote:

stun wrote:
Will IE8 pass the ACID2 test if we change the default font from Times New Roman to Cambria?

Yes.

I know a lot about ACID2 by now , there isn't anything there that would depend on choice of font...

Thanks all for encouraging comments!
Alex

Thanks Alex! This makes me very happy to get confirmation that it will pass ACID2 across other Serif type fonts.

That will make the web pages a lot more beautiful and pleasing to read.
Congratulations and great work on this major milestone :).

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

amtiskaw — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:53:50 GMT

Congratulations guys, as a web developer this is great news to hear. Some points I'd like to make:

While I have sympathy for the problems you discussed regarding maintaining compatibility with older versions of IE, I should hardly need to point out that they are much of you own making ;) If these features had been implemented correctly in the first place then the problem would not exist. I don't say this to attack you, but to suggest that it is better not to implement a feature at all than to implement it incorrectly, or to implement it before the "correct" behaviour has been absolutely defined. Therefore, I was very glad to hear you mention that you work with the standards groups and (particularly) the other browser vendors to resolve omissions and ambiguities in the specs. I've spoken with colleagues in the past about how I wouldn't care if IE didn't implement features X, Y and Z, because right from the bat I'd just plan my content around a subset A, B and C that were supported in all my target browsers. It's when I start off believing I can use features X, Y and Z in all browsers, then run into problems half way through development because of subtle incompatibilities, that problems really arise. It's then that I have to start chasing round bug reports on obscure blogs, adding browser specific hacks, and my estimates start slipping.

I'd also be interested in later communications from the team to hear what is your opinion on the future of the web in terms of standards, and as an application platform? For example, what is your stance on XHTML V2 vs HTML 5? What do you think of CSS 3.0? You talked in this video about the addition and standardisation of XmlHttpRequest, but it seems like there's been less innovation of this sort in the last few years. The only major example I can think of has been the addition of the Canvas tag in some browsers (and now into HTML 5, I believe). I guess the problem is that if individual browsers, particularly IE, start adding features unilaterally, then they are screamed at for introducing proprietary extensions, but if everything is done via standards bodies then it could well be a glacial design-by-committee process. What are your thoughts on this? Do you see a greater roll for more ad-hoc groups like WHATWG, where a smaller group of vendors can more swiftly spec a new approach and then pass it to the WC3 for standardisation? Do you foresee greater cooperation with Mozilla, Apple, etc, in the future?

It seems like from a political point of view, Microsoft is ambivalent at best regarding the web as an application platform. On the one hand you're producing great stuff like ASP.NET 2, the AJAX toolkit, Microsoft Expression, etc, but on the other you mothballed IE for a long time, and you don't seem too active in really pushing to advance the web beyond its current limitations. AJAX is all very well, but it's basically just squeezing the last drops out of technology that's almost a decade old. My cynical side would say that you're reluctant to enhance the web too far, for fear of letting web applications compete too closely with the desktop. That you want to stabilise HTML + CSS as a fancy document language, but to only deliver app capability via things like Silverlight and .NET that you have greater control over. Or am I just being paranoid? ;)

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

jsampsonPC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:20:10 GMT

Terrific job IE8 team! Terrific! I don't think I've ever seen such high praise come from the c9 community in response to a single video in the past. Excellent work Charles!

Merry Christmas,

Jonathan Sampson

(This is indeed a true Christmas gift for us web-developers!)

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

deegae — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:44:33 GMT

sweet! kudos to the team for the work that they've put in.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

Usagi — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:10:35 GMT

a mac version is coming soon?

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

Allan Lindqvist — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:01:29 GMT

it amazes me how poorly some people seem to be able to read/understand english. i sometimes wonder if people intentionally missunderstands information from microsoft jut to be able to whine and (I need to watch my language) about it. just to set things strait:

micosoft said the acid2 test wasnt a priority for IE7, ie8 is another story

the standards mode is something you set in the doctype had has has been around for ever.

keep up the good work ie team and thank you charles for another great interview.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

glebd — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:36:32 GMT

While this is in itself very good news, there is a worrying phrase in the announcement. IE8 passes Acid2 test *in IE8 Standards mode*. This _may_ mean there is another mode that doesn't render Acid2 correctly and must be some sort of compatibility mode. I appreciate the need for such mode in MSIE, but only as long as it is not set as the default upon release of MSIE8.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

vesuvius — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:46:32 GMT

xaml wrote:

esoteric wrote:Nice! Kudos to the IE team. Downloading...

Good point.. where's the download link?

No seriously!

Here it is. Just 'save link as....'

The key word is interoperability never mind acid. I guess the significant difficulty in being standards compliant, is that you have to be innovative along the way. The 'feature' added in 1998 is still being ruminated by WC3. Reminds of a thread where the user said effecting change at WC3 is like planting grass in a desert. It doesn't happen oft.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

xaml — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:32:33 GMT

esoteric wrote:
Nice! Kudos to the IE team. Downloading...

Good point.. where's the download link?

No seriously!

;) :$ :s

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

websnarf — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:24:37 GMT

Bas wrote:

CompGuy101 wrote:Didn't Microsoft publicly say that the Acid2 test wasn't one of their primary focuses?
In fact, Alex is saying the same thing in this video: "Passing the test is not something we build the project around. We build the project around implementing important features in a standards compliant way, and when we do it, the test just happened."

So as far as I understand it, more standards compliance is a focus for IE8. The test, as is its purpose, just points out that they succeeded at the compliance.

Nobody will make content until browsers support the features, and browser vendors will not make the features unless they know developers are prepared to use them.

The Acid2 test is an egg in this "chicken and the egg" scenario. It gets a lot of play and is touted by MS's competitors as proof that they are looking forward while MS is not. The downplaying of the importance of this test, while making a video talking specifically around the event of being able to run the test for the first time (in the default font)? ... it seems like there is a lot of kool aid being drunk here.

But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The work of CSS and these sorts of tests obviously owes a tremendous amount to Opera's leadership, followed by Firefox's momentum. To admit that this test is important would be to conceed that they are playing catch up to the real leaders (who pass the test without showing off 400 pages of dead trees) and that they actually *owe* them for setting their direction.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

someone — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:37:04 GMT

Congrats to the IE team. I've 1000+ rants and bug reports but I don't want to discourage you right now. Btw, if:

"We’re building IE8 for many different customers (consumers, web service providers, independent software vendors, enterprises, web developers, and others." then how about also building IE8 for media and print/photo professionals and including JPEG 2000, HD Photo, SVG, APNG and ICCv4 color management support and A-V tags, opacity: value; etc?

I hope the IE does not forget over time that "Acid2, is by no means a complete measure of CSS standards support and CSS is not the only standard. In fact, many IE issues are not CSS-related."

And btw, if you don't continue to release IE9,10,11 for XP, forget it. I'll still be pissed off. Because Opera 9 also runs on Windows 95 and MS should make a browser independent of their beloved OS. It is not just your duty to support Windows XP, people won't care about IE and use some other browser, its share will increase if you don't keep supporting XP even when Windows 7 or 8 comes out.

And I second a public bug-tracking system. And "third" a ""Fix the "Operation Aborted" JS DOM error.""

And as a punishment to MS for not supporting standards for sooooo long, I probably won't switch to IE8 if all is supports is just Acid2 compliance...maybe IE9 raises the standards compliance to 98% +, then I'll surely consider.

Lastly, I expect IE8 to be performant enough, definitely not cause as much speed lag as IE6=>7 transition.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

LaBomba — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:03:24 GMT

I guess BillG knocked on your guy's door to ask "WTH, is going on?"..:)

Not too shabby.

Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

RichardRudek — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 05:39:24 GMT

creditcard wrote:

So um, how about a release?

If IE8 releases before Firefox 3 you can deliver a fatal blow to Firefox standards complience claims.

I think I'd prefer that it was done right, rather than release early, just to start a fight... ;)