Raman Sharma: Building Metro Style Apps with C++ and JavaScript

This is good but can I use C++ 3D with HTML?

I love the WinRT stuff, should be able to embed a DirectX game right inside an HTML element and boom.  I hope the DX guys make a similar surface API to get an equivalent for WebGL for GPU computation tasks/graphics embedded in web pages.

Yeah, it could be very nice. But it is possible with WinRT to create 3D app engine in C++ and do all game interface in HTML/JS?

Interesting... Can I create such winrt wrappers for native libraries for which I don't have source code?  

Although downloaded twice, I cannot play the High Quality MP4 file!?

Really bad presentation style for such a revolutionary step in native/JS/.NET integration.
This presentation has to be renamed as '100 Things That Constitute a Bad Presentation Style'.

Did this presentation happen at the conference?  At least I didn't see it.  I think this is something they recorded later. I saw at least two talks at the conference that sorta showed the JScript/Native integration.  This guy at least goes into some details.  Having said that, an interview style would have been better for this kind of a topic.

Very good video - I would like to some WRL examples (creating/consuming WinRT with ISO C++ instead of C++/CX).  Some initial examples here:

http://www.interact-sw.co.uk/iangblog/2011/09/25/native-winrt-inheritance

@Ted.w: Hi ted, what value do you get from using the WRL wrappers? As best I can see, using WRL will just makes *a lot* of *not very portable* code out of a arguably a little *non ISO* code. It's all MS specific anyway so making it ISO isn't much of a value in my initial opinions on C++/CX. What I am suggesting is that for the purposes of being "portable" (if that was your goal and it may not be), porting a little non ISO code may be a lot easier to port than a lot of ISO code that is still MS specific.

I totally respect your desire to stay portable and ISO if that's your motive, but I just wonder if using WRL instead of C++/CX will actually make your code *less* portable practice but just creating more junk wrapper code to port.

Anyway, just a point of view and you totally may have a good other reasons for your question.

@other people: Please step in and challenge the views here both ways, it's the best way to get at our collective understanding here.

There's a lot of good and bad angles on C++/CX and I want to see them to see if we can form a consensus. Please be kind though.

@Raman, I can't watch this video for some reason. It's probably the computer I'm temporarily using. Since I can't watch the video, please forgive any confusion I may have about the title and your comments here to other people.

But can you clarify for me. You said to kindadev:

"If you are referring to being able to to render 3D content using C++ on a HTML5 surface, then that is something not supported right now. Do you have some example of a scenario in which you would want to do that instead of creating the overall application in C++?"

Some people (possibly kindadev) would like to author C++/CX components and use them to both create new UI style controls as well as set properties on existing HTML controls.

Can you explicitly state out of these goals which ones are possible and not possible and any other obvious limitations that you know. Thanks.

@badpres I think you're being a bit harsh...I've endured far worse presentations than this. He did a good job of explaining what he was doing

@raman, sorry I'm still not 100% sure what you mean.

I think you are saying C++/CX objects can be invoked through JS, but that C++/CX can't be actually used to create a new type of DOM element even by deriving from an existing one. Is that right?

So basically, the browser can't be extended by adding new UI controls in the way companies like Telerik do and as is often done for classic windows line of business apps. Also, browser based games cannot be authored this way either. Is that right?

My other question, is C++/CX "safe" in the browser in ways that say ActiveX is not and wher Chrome Native Client apps might be?

I conclude from what you have said these facts:

1. Can you create NEW C++/CX UI Controls?: No, because they can't owner draw, just compose at best.
2. Can you write a game in the browser?: No, again because it can't draw anything.
3. MS "validates" C++/CX aka Metro apps through the app store, but developers will have to pay for that and it's listing now or eventually. So it appears, MS is now making its revenue from developers supporting the platform via - an app tax if you will; as well as customers purchasing the platform directly.

4. So basically, without the ability to draw, the browser is a non extensible platform and using C++/CX this way nets you an app tax and saves your hoster some processing cycles, maybe.

5. So, if you don't want this, don't use it but you can't get a metro app onto the platform any other way.

6. If you want to avoid the app tax compose your controls on your own cloud platform framework (say Linux) and deliver your composted controls that way since that is all you can create locally anyway.

That's the way it looks to me from the information I've got from you.

Sorry in advance if I have got any of this wrong. I may well have.

I'll let others chime in on this on the advantages / disadvantages of this model.

@Raman, thanks kindly for the offer but I'd prefer and think it will suffice just to see you answer my questions here.

The questions could not be simpler and are numbered so you don't miss them and its better you have your words actual words posted here than risk me quoting you incorrectly.

I'd like to hear answers to Glen's questions as well.

And me too. 

I can not play High Quality MP4 video. I'm using VLC or even Media Player - its stuck after first couple of minutes :( :(

I'm personally against the whole HTML5/Javascript/CSS3. I would much prefer Silverlight over this. It's a shame since silverlight is so much better. HTML5 is just overhyped.

interesting, this gentleman calls by native code, the c++ managed wrapper, which in fact is using a technology he has no clue about (pinvoke and com with legendary hresults, etc). is this how it works now? managers (obviously almost clueless) present somebody else's work via the clipboard... just my 2 cents. can somebody do something about that? how can somebody represent microsoft by calling c++ managed code by native code? hello?!?

also, for you information, i know it may be too technical for microsoft product managers...

by definition, hybrid apps are NOT combining javascript and c++. visual c++ can link native and managed obj(s). that IS what a hybrid app is all about.

just for your technical information... noticed that you are clueless about the complex technology you got to manage. no hard feelings

basically, this demo could have been explained as following:

1. since metro apps are managed apps, obviously they can consume assemblies made by any other managed code family language (e.g. managed c++). just like in life, not all managed languages are born equal!

2. what is so special, unique and wonderful about the microsoft visual c++ compiler toolset? under the the visual c++ umbrella you get 2 distinct c++ compilers, native and manged. their backends general compatible obj(s) so the linker can create assemblies containing native obj(s) or even native applications containing managed subsystems. and this is exactly what this demo is all about! the referenced assembly contained the mission critical flip geometrical transformation implemented in NATIVE C++

of course, the microsoft marketing machine would not accept simple things like "fast is good, slow is bad" (talking about native vs managed c++) or that not all their languages are born equal or that c++ toolset is STILL the best language Microsoft (and apple and unix and linux) are using, because it gives you several programming paradigms (structured, oop, generic) so, enough abstraction while being per-formant and scalable. what microsoft added to this is the managed c++ extensions and the wonderful ability of the linker to link managed and native obj(s) into what's called HYBRID APPS.

of course, like any lost art, the managers have different opinions... once upon a time, when c++ used to be a first class citizen in microsoft and when product managers still had a technical clue about the products they managed, so once upon a time, there was compiler backed project, modular and plugin based, called phoenix. phoenix supposed to allow you create native and managed obj(s) from ANY language (e.g. c#, vb, etc). of course, the upper management found this unacceptable and killed it (because the message to you, the many, supposed to be simple ".net is the best, is safe and fast enough for all your needs"

what can i say more... who has ears to HEAR ME NOW (for i will not say it again) - this is for Microsoft Sake!!!

Hi Raman,
I like this video very much, it's helpful to let me know how to build "JS + WinRT dll".
One thing I'm wondering is if this concept is compatible to "C# + WinRT dll" or not?
Because here I create a C# project and try to add reference of WinRT dll, it tells me "failed to add reference".

Thanks.
YR

Hi Raman,
Thanks for your response.
Because I don't have your email, I put my app on skydrive.

https://skydrive.live.com/#!/?cid=65de7800e1b1250d&sc=documents&uc=1&nl=1&id=65DE7800E1B1250D%21256

The file name is DemoCs.zip created by Visual Studio 11 Preview.

Regards,
YR

@Raman_Sharma:

It's working for me now.
Another question is how to stop at breakpoint in C++?
I set a breakpoint in C++, and start debugging, then I found it can not stop at C++ breakpoint.
And I also can not find "Debugging" option in DemoCs project settings, it's not the same as JS project settings.

Thanks.

Regards,
YR 

@Raman_Sharma:
Got it.
Thanks. 

@Raman_Sharma:
I try to set debug "native only" on the sample in your video. (JS + WinRT C++)
The breakpoint can stop at C++, however I try to use "Immediate Window" or "Watch" to see some variable value, it's failed.
For example, I set breakpoint in WinRTComponent::FlipImage() function, and try to see variables inFile/outFile/hr in "Watch", but it always told me variables are undefined.
Do I need some more settings to fix it?

Regards,
YR 

@Raman_Sharma:
Thanks, I got it. (I just think maybe I set wrong setting on my project.)

Regards,
YR 

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@Raman_Sharma: I did hear about that. I'm glad they're supporting XAML! Thanks.