Joe Beda - Is Avalon a way to take over the Web? | TheChannel9Team

mscott
Whatup!!!

I wonder how the proposed 3D graphical desktop will be effected by the interaction of the web through Avalon. Will we be able to write 3D websites to be viewed on the desktop?

miseldine
Embrace the Geek

"whether Avalon will be the technology that Microsoft uses to replace the Web"

What extent do those involved in Longhorn (or marketing) etc. believe uptake to be? I think questions like the above are totally dependent on who actually has the technology on their box.

Do you see business, the home, or both, craving to shift to Longhorn as quickly as possible (say, like the Windows 95 launch, where even our newspapers ran front page adverts for 95) or do you see a more skeptical and more cautious audience to slowly win around?

Interesting video btw. added some clarity to the future Smiley

JBeda
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For sure, update will be slower than something like a downloadable browser. However, we think that the capabilities will be sufficient to merit start the upgrade cycle. The recent discussions as to the longevity of WinForms attests to the long term strategy that we have with regards to longhorn.

ChrisAn has some comments wrt WinForms: http://www.simplegeek.com/PermaLink.aspx/75ae91f2-53d9-41e9-8ca8-845367c254e3

I'm hoping that Longhorn will merit the type of excitement that there was around Win95. Only time will tell if we can really start a wave that big. However, we don't want to overhype it now seeing as it is still such a ways out. It would've been cool if we could have shiped it on August 25th, 2005 -- that would have been 10 years after the Win95 launch.

Joe

Lwatson
One ugly mug...

So Avalon will be a sort of replacement for the .NET ease of building webservices and consumers of those webservices all rolled up into the upcoming longhorn release?

I had not thought about it before like that but now that I have been made to see the potential I feel the excitement beginning to build for that day when it finally arrives. I have been involved with building rich clients communicating over thin wires for some time now. I can say that barring the deployment of the fairly fat .Net runtimes, the use of customized web services have given our development the ability to deploy 'RICH' with 'REACH' for our customers. Indeed this has given us some wins where we might not have had them before. If Avalon expands on that notion then I for one will be happier for it.

my 2c

lenn
Fo' Shizzle

Mscott - Love the Avatar Bro Wink

JBeda
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mscott wrote:

I wonder how the proposed 3D graphical desktop will be effected by the interaction of the web through Avalon. Will we be able to write 3D websites to be viewed on the desktop?

Most of our effort is really concentrated on doing 2D graphics in new and interesting ways. 3D is cool, but 2D is the bread and butter. The 3D support in Avalon will fall in to two categories: 3D in an app/page and 3D on the desktop.

The 3D in an app will be a way for normal humans (not DX gods) to do a little 3D and have it integrate well with their 2D UI content. While you can load XAML in the browser (and have it downloaded from a web site) the main thrust will be to enable regular old 2D UI people to start getting their feet wet with 3D.

The 3D on the desktop will be used mostly to show windows in new and interesting ways. This is the stuff that our Shell team (wait until Kam's interview is up!) is doing to make the window manager cool.

I should also note that it is the DX team who is still doing the "down to the metal" D3D work. Avalon builds on top of DX and pushes it in new directions. While you will be able to do cool things with 3D in Avalon directly, nothing is going to replace D3D for writing Quake.

miseldine
Embrace the Geek

Any impressions on Sun's Looking Glass project? I remember seeing it, thinking "wow! that's so cool!" then imagining trying to find my windows in 3D space when I seem to loose them in plain old 2D...nevermind worrying about which way around they are or at what angle Smiley

It'll be interesting to read (or see!) the practical applications of 3D on the desktop from your Shell team.

On a quick note about WinForms, its certainly great technology (reminded me of Delphi), but why didn't it ship with the controls to build modern GUIs which users of XP, Office 2003 etc. start to feel comfortable with? I've had to use 3rd party controls to achieve standard functionality like icons in menus. It was something that really frustrated me, so will XAML etc. make UI development more open to any leaps in UI functionality (I'm thinking of, say XP sidebars)?

JBeda
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One thing at a time Smiley

I haven't taken a close look at Sun's looking glass. The team that I'm on is providing the base capabilities for other developers to build on. Specifically, we are providing tools for control authors and the shell to take advantage of. Kam (one of the guys driving the look and feel of Longhorn) also did an interview for Channel9. Hopefully he can shed more light on these questions.

As to WinForms, I wasn't involved in that, but I do see what you are saying. My understanding is that the WinForms team is still working on providing more and more capable controls in their future versions. As for Avalon and XAML, we are hoping that it will be much easier for the average user to get some of those advanced looks.

However, we are upping the bar to some degree also. Advanced graphical capabilities will allow developers with artistic skill (or access to someone with artistic skill) to push the boundaries. Just like you can do a lot with an artist helping you out with your website, you will be able to apply some of those same skills to writing a windows program. Not only will you be able to easily put an icon on a button, you'll have to have design that icon.

Sampy
This will be the sixth time we have destroyed it and we have become exceedingly efficient at it

Whidbey Winforms will knock your socks off.

You can finally make real Office-level UI easily with just the stock controls. Whidbey apps can look just as professional as the stuff we ship.

Outlook 2k3 UI with stock Whidbey controls? Not only possible but easy.