Comment Feed for Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room) (scobleizer on Channel 9)

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

TimmyM — Wed, 17 May 2006 21:37:04 GMT

PerfectPhase wrote:

Talking of media center, it would be great to have a media center plugin for channel 9 so I can watch the vids from the comfort of my front room

Install the TvTonic plugin for MCE and select Cannel 9 for one of your channels.

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

Copsey — Sun, 07 May 2006 10:53:27 GMT

Guys - will I be able to edit the "out of the box" media center experience?
I'm driving MCE from a 7" touchscreen and the thing that bugs me is the tiny scroll buttons - if i could edit the UI to increase these that would be great

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

skatterbrain — Mon, 01 May 2006 14:38:52 GMT

Very interesting session. Maybe it's because I'm not from the Northwest, but I counted about two dozen instances where he answers a question with "So,..." or "And so,..." Is that a local dialect thing? Weird. But then again, we answer questions with "Hell yeah..." or "Hell no..." a lot of the time here in the Southeast. :s

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

jamesf — Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:49:08 GMT

Great video. But what I have to ask is: why on earth isn't MS pushing the Xbox 360 + MCE PC combo more? It's a fantastic solution, easy to set up, consumer-ready and performs flawlessly. For goodness sake, people think FrontRow is something new! MS is crazy not to get behind this platform with all its might; Dell should be selling HDTVs + X360 + MCE PC combos like hotcakes. It's the living room killer app.

Hopefully,
James

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

OInter — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:39:30 GMT

Cool!

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

charlieo — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:54:23 GMT

Senkwe Chanda --> Charlie, would it be possible to get my hands on the source code for that last demo with the spinning letters?

Absolutely! We posted the Alphabet Soup sample (and a couple of others) when we introduced Windows Media Center Presentation Layer Web Applications. Read the blog post at http://blog.mediacentersandbox.com/PermaLink,guid,cb622812-d80f-45d2-82d6-a54099e62e21.aspx for a pointer to the Alphabet Soup source (it's readable XML in your browser).

PerfectPhase --> The first comment on the thread you reference above suggests that you will not be able to watch videos encoded with xvid/divx and the like on an xbox360/MCX device, is this correct?

Your statement is correct in that we don't natively support xvid / divx within Windows Media Center or Media Center Extender (for a list of the formats supported on Media Center Extender see http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/MedctrSDK/htm/supportedmediatypesforthemediacenterextender.asp?frame=true).

However, there are a couple of community apps which have cropped up enabling you to watch xvid / divx on Media Center Extender: See http://www.brains-N-brawn.com/mceDivX360 and http://www.runtime360.com/ (the former was written by one of our newest Windows Media Center MVPs, Casey Chestnut).

Gotta love a platform. :-)

PerfectPhase --> Is there a list of people making Media Center Extenders?

There should be over at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/extender/default.mspx.

PerfectPhase --> Will the current crop of MCX devices be able to fully support Vista's media center? What sort of level will post be Vista RTM devices be expected to function at?

To be honest, I'm not on the MCX team and your previous question was about as deep as I can go personally with MCX technology outside of where it intersects with the platform piece. I'll see if I can get someone from the MCX team to join the conversation and give us some details on these questions.

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

PerfectPhase — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:20:08 GMT

charlieo wrote:

The initial setup of the Media Center Extender does more than you might think (check out http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=126995

Several quick questions:

1) The first comment on the thread you reference above suggests that you will not be able to watch videos encoded with xvid/divx and the like on an xbox360/MCX device, is this correct?

2) Is there a list of people making Media Center Extenders?

3) Will the current crop of MCX devices be able to fully support Vista's media center? What sort of level will post be Vista RTM devices be expected to function at?

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

Senkwe Chanda — Sat, 15 Apr 2006 03:20:02 GMT

Charlie, would it be possible to get my hands on the source code for that last demo with the spinning letters? I don't have a Media Centre PC so I don't want to download the entire SDK. But I'd like to browse that source.

Thanks.

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

charlieo — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:22:23 GMT

bluvg ---> Am I dreaming too big?

I don't think so. Dedicate a Media Center PC to the task and you effectively have a 'Windows Media Center Server'. If you count the Media Center PC as a node itself (only use it for Windows Media Center) you have 6 sessions of Windows Media Center going at once. Think about it -- with status quo of what is shipping today you can have distributed audio / video throughout these rooms in a single house...

   Living Room (Media Center PC)
   Bedroom 1 (Media Center Extender)
   Bedroom 2 (Media Center Extender)
   Bedroom 3 (Media Center Extender)
   Den / Bonus Room (Media Center Extender)
   Kitchen (Media Center Extender)

Your particular usage of Windows Media Center (single PC, dual monitor, television and monitor in separate rooms connected by long video cables) is not exactly what we had in mind for a single Media Center PC scenario.

Generally speaking, if you have a single PC, the thought is you put away the mouse / keyboard, sit back and relax while enjoying content. If you want to use a Windows application (like browsing the web or email) and Windows Media Center at the same time you would typically run Windows Media Center in a window on the desktop. That's not to say your usage is wrong -- just not the use case for which we designed (but I'm glad it works as well as it does).

And that's where Media Center Extender indeed does become very handy -- it allows you to 'extend' the Windows Media Center experience to other rooms, while leaving the Media Center PC in the typical location of the home.

The initial setup of the Media Center Extender does more than you might think (check out
For example, in my case, I have one PC with all my music loaded into it, as well as having videos and whatnot. I could share those files across the network to my other PCs, but it would be rather high-maintenance compared to the simple remote client approach (which works so well on my Xbox!). Furthermore, it's the only PC with a tuner and access to a cable connection. If I want access to that, an Extender client is the only real approach.

I should say that the Extender is, IMO, one of the coolest things about Media Center. It works slick over my 802.11n wireless network... I'd even say that it works better than having the Media Center PC hooked up directly to the TV! The beauty of the Extender is that it works more like an appliance, whereas the Media Center app creates some conflicts with the PC (unless I just have this misconfigured; I have it set up as a monitor as a primary display and the TV as a secondary). For example, if I'm on the computer browsing the web and my girlfriend is watching TV through the Media Center app, I have to click on the Media Center taskbar button in order for her to be able to change the channel. If I need to start the Media Center app on the computer monitor, I need to turn off the secondary display in the video driver, and then turn it on and move the app back onto it (usually a blind process, since the TV is around the corner) afterwards. Plus, just to use the app, someone has to be logged into the computer. With the Extender, it makes all that happen transparently and behind-the-scenes, and you can use your computer normally. Beautiful!

As a good friend once said: 'Anything is possible -- it's *just* software'. There are many factors that go into this type of decision, not the least of which is consumer demand -- and there are *way* more features folks are demanding from Windows Media Center at the moment over 5+ MCX connections.

I understand. I think I'm not alone, though, in requesting a sort of "Media Center Server." Today, the options (of which I'm aware) are setting up a Windows Media Server and configuring it with certain channels as streams, or installing an expensive A/V system
+ coax to each node + tuner cards + software. Where I work, there is a legitimate business value in having something like a "SoftSled"-style client that can connect to a central Media Center PC from anywhere in the office. I don't think we'd ever see a ton of people using it concurrently... maybe 5 is enough, really. But it would also be critical that each client wouldn't go through something like the Xbox Extender setup; ideally, Active Directory authentication would be sufficient.

Am I dreaming too big? :s

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

charlieo — Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:12:41 GMT

tj8212 --> Can we get some kind of objective comparisn between mcml and wpf for mce apps on the sandbox site.

We do have this already in the beta Windows Media Center SDK -- it's a chart with a side-by-side comparison of the three development choices -- if you have the SDK, look for the 'Choosing a Technology' topic. We are trying to limit the information we post to the Media Center sandbox to stuff we are reasonably sure won't change between now and RTM (since it lives 'forever' on the web) -- and this chart and accompanying commentary probably have a few more edit passes before we can call it ready for prime time.

Cryo --> [With regards to the silent room we filmed the video in ]...there's an Xbox and an Xbox 360 in there, and an unsilenced projector hanging in the ceiling? Sort of seems like that would defeat the purpose.

For audio only tests, there is no reason the projector can't be turned off or the XBoxes moved into the siloed machine room. For video tests you aren't worried about the sound fidelity (and you can see AV sync problems with the lowest of the lowest audio fidelity). That said, the XBox is *probably* in there, well, because the room makes for an WICKED gaming venue. I mean, what fun would a room like that be if it were always business and no play at least some of the time. :-)

bluvg --> With regards to the Extender functionality, will Vista include an Extender "client" itself? I heard there was talk of this going under the codename of "Softsled." Please, please, please tell me Vista will have an Extender app built-in.

There have been some things misquoted the past couple of days with regards to 'SoftSled', so don't believe everything you read on the web. This approach is just one of the possible directions you might see things take in the future -- there are no specific announcements at this time. Having said that, I will say this: Windows Vista Home Premium and Windows Vista Ultimate will ship with OEM systems and in the retail (standalone) channel -- you don't need something like SoftSled if you have Windows Media Center 'built-in' already. :-)

bluvg --> Also, is there any possibility in the future that the maximum number of extenders will be increased?

[Charlie is answering in the the order the questions / comments were made...] I see and acknowlege your comments, ohgood. I thought bluvg did a pretty good job of answering, so I'll just say 'ditto'.

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

bluvg — Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:45:22 GMT

ohgood wrote:

Without having seen the video yet, and only basing this comment on the screenshot:

1) Why does everything 'new!' and 'exciting!' look like Mac OS ? I initially thought the screenshot was a comparison of Mac's iDVD, but then noticed things didn't fit properly.

For what it's worth, Media Center has been around for several years now, and Apple's Front Row--with a fraction of the capability--was released at the end of last year.

ohgood wrote:

2) While I'm at it, why is 'securty!' such a buzzword at Microsoft now ? I mean, other folks have been doing it right for a long time. Security is not sexy, and definetly not going to sell PC's.

Some--but very few--folks have been doing it "right." Microsoft has taken (and is taking) its knocks for security and has gotten by far the most attention, but if you've followed the news lately, other rocks are being overturned, and the security focus is spreading to companies that were previously given a pass (Oracle, Apple, etc.). It's not a "buzzword" for Microsoft only--it's one for the whole industry. Keep in mind that these days in the malicious hacking world, it's all about $$$, and because of its vast market share, Windows is going to get the most lovin'.

If there weren't so many ISVs and other baggage to drag along kicking and screaming, they'd have made "restricted" user accounts the norm a long time ago, and these conversations would hardly exist (they'd be entirely different security conversations).

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

ohgood — Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:59:40 GMT

    Without having seen the video yet, and only basing this comment on the screenshot:

    1) Why does everything 'new!' and 'exciting!' look like Mac OS ? I initially thought the screenshot was a comparison of Mac's iDVD, but then noticed things didn't fit properly.

    2) While I'm at it, why is 'securty!' such a buzzword at Microsoft now ? I mean, other folks have been doing it right for a long time. Security is not sexy, and definetly not going to sell PC's.

    I hope that since I'm not directly bashing vista in it's current beta form, folks can realize this isn't a troll, but just two questions that keep bugging me. I really hope Microsoft isn't betting on folks upgrading because of 'me too!' features. Notice whats happening with General Motors right now, after doing just such a thing for years.

    Cheers.

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

papavb — Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:06:25 GMT

Scoble. can't dowload the video, it gives me some weirdo error message ! help

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

bluvg — Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:52:32 GMT

With regards to the Extender functionality, will Vista include an Extender "client" itself? I heard there was talk of this going under the codename of "Softsled."

Please, please, please tell me Vista will have an Extender app built-in. :)

Also, is there any possibility in the future that the maximum number of extenders will be increased?

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

Duck — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:30:19 GMT

Great explanation on the use of the XBox extender. I'm all wrapped up in other areas of code for what I do, so that was really neat to pay a visit here and understand how the rendering process is taking place and the really detailed use of XML or MCML, MCXML, or what what is called again?:)

I really enjoy this technology, and what it brings together and have demo'd media center units in the past. I really like what Vista is also going to add with the UI menus too. Very informative and neat to see what is to come!

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

Cryo — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:24:33 GMT

The interview was really interesting, good work! [H]

There's just one minor thing that I don't get; everything humanly possible has been done to make the room quiet with the noisy hardware and such seperated in a different room, etc.

And still there's an Xbox and an Xbox 360 in there, and an unsilenced projector hanging in the ceiling? Sort of seems like that would defeat the purpouse. :P

Anyway, I envy you. Wish I had access to facilities like that. Would be perfect for marathons of quality TV series. :)

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

tj8212 — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 18:14:05 GMT

Can we get some kind of objective comparisn between mcml and wpf for mce apps on the sandbox site. I know you said in the video piece, "it is all about giving the developer choice", but I think us developers would like to now the best choice based on what we are building for mce.

Maybe something like this

MCML Pros
-Full Power, claims you can build an app as powerful if not better the mce itself
“Add Ins allowing for the creation of full fidelity experiences on par with or exceeding Media Center itself using the new Windows Media Center Presentation Layer.”

-Used by the mce team to build mce

MCML Cons
-App will not work outside of mce
-no visual tool

FAQs

Is MCML ready for primetime?
Well if the mce team has built mce with mcml, I guess its ready???

So MCML is the only way to fully leverage the Microsoft .NET Framework, access the full Media Center application programming interface (API) and run on-demand or as a background process?

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

charlieo — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:49:24 GMT

Senkwe Chanda --> So I was puzzled as to why you found it necessary to create yet another UI markup language. Did you need a more lightweight framework?

We shipped the very first version of Windows Media Center back in 2002. Windows Presentation Foundation ('Avalon') was demonstrated at PDC 2003 and, as of today, is still in beta.

I.e., we have been shipping software using the Windows Media Center Presentation Layer for over 4 years now. I believe we would have used WinFX for Windows Media Center had it been a shipping platform way back when.

Senkwe Chanda --> But a combination of that last demo of the twirling letters and the post quoted here leads me to suspect that you didn't want to go the WPF route because the performance of WPF at the moment leaves alot to be desired.

Nope. We didn't expose the Windows Media Center Presentation Layer because WPF isn't performant enough. Note we have also given you the ability to use WPF for your Windows Media Center experiences, if you so choose. I've seen WPF do some pretty amazing things (the North Face demo totally rocks -- see
Directv devices...hmm. Well, please let everyone know that's involved that I want a microsoft device running my living room television experience, not a directv one. The HDTivo is pretty crappy. It's the slowest piece of hardware I have ever seen and it's not maintained in any way.

directv can give me the signal as long as Microsoft gives me the way to get to that signal :)

thanks for the reply!

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

JohanJesus — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:18:18 GMT

A question for the MCE team!

Will the new mce support a ca-module/pay tv in europe? Now we need a set top box to watch pay tv

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

Senkwe Chanda — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:17:18 GMT

charlieo wrote:

tj8212 --> As for performance on extenders, will mcml apps render better than wpf based apps?

Yes.

Ok, I noticed in the video that MCML bears a striking resemblance to XAML. You guys have support for layout panels, common controls, databinding, event triggers and separation of behaviour from control type. I'm sure there are other similarities. So I was puzzled as to why you found it necessary to create yet another UI markup language. But a combination of that last demo of the twirling letters and the post quoted here leads me to suspect that you didn't want to go the WPF route because the performance of WPF at the moment leaves alot to be desired.

Did you need a more lightweight framework?

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

charlieo — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 08:27:28 GMT

tj8212 --> As for performance on extenders, will mcml apps render better than wpf based apps?

Yes.

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

tj8212 — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 04:52:31 GMT

Hey Charlie and Mark, great stuff.

As for performance on extenders, will mcml apps render better than wpf based apps?

Also, good thing you pointed out the apple remote comparison by Steve Jobs. I also touched on it on my Blog
http://www.tunjiafonja.com/tunjis_weblog/2006/03/hey_steve_we_ar.html

Re: Charlie Owen - Your first Media Center/Vista application (and a look at their secret room)

charlieo — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 03:33:34 GMT

PerfectPhase --> ...it would be great to have a media center plugin for channel 9.

smidley --> I agree with the idea about a plugin to watch CH. 9 vids from Online spotlight or something like that.

You can use Newsgator Media Center Edition (find it in Online Spotlight) to subscribe to the Channel9 RSS video feed and watch in Media Center or on the XBox 360 Media Center Extender.