Lawson Smart Office brings WPF goodness to the enterprise | The Continuum Show

iparag
iParag.com

Super Cool demo! It just means that we as application developers have a lot to do to make full use of WPF. But at present biggest deterent to adopt WPF is adoption rate of .NET 3.0, what is microsoft doing to increase adoption rate of .NET 3.0 in end-user's PCs ? Business domain is great for WPF, but increased adoption is the only way to make is viable for Retails products.

jh71283
Throw new System.Beverage. OutOfCoffeeException()

In reply to iparag

#Aug 27th, 2008 @ 7:24 PM

Couldn't agree more with you iparag.

The one thing that could have save MS from this istuation of having a 200MB installer for the new apps was the client profile, but that one was a complete balls up.

If only they had done a little bit of user testing and feedback in the earlier stages, (especially here on C9 - a forum full of the target audience) they would have been told that it is of no use, as it targets only PC's with absolutely no net framework installed.

vesuvius
Das Glasperlenspiel

That is one phenomenal application, and really could not have been pulled off by people starting to learn WPF. Adam can you not interview Lee Brimelow, or Frog design team? It takes far much more than developers to create an application like this, even though they are the adhesive.

How to they go through the design stages, what were the pitfalls etc.. Apart from the Windows UX team, we never really get into the minds of the design teams. I know you've had Vertigo and the "I see dead people" one and the phenomenal Xceed grid (now with 3D), but we really need more from the design people.

spivonious

Why isn't Vista's desktop like this?

vesuvius
Das Glasperlenspiel

In reply to spivonious

#Aug 28th, 2008 @ 8:43 AM

A possible answer may be in this thread

aL_
Rx ftw

In reply to jh71283

#Aug 27th, 2008 @ 11:24 PM

now,now.. rare is the case when you actually need to download the full 200 mb.. that download is for all platforms and includes both x86 and x64 bit versions of .net.. .net 3.5 sp1 is really only ~56 mb for a fresh xp machine and for vista, where .net3 is included by default, its like 10 more mb that you need to download

scott hanselman explains it all in this blogpost:
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/SmallestDotNetOnTheSizeOfTheNETFramework.aspx

what does suck however is the install time.. .net takes forever to install :/ its slightly better with sp1 i hear but theres a lot of room for improvment there..

still, all vista machines already have .net so adoption there is 100% Smiley

vesuvius
Das Glasperlenspiel

In reply to aL_

#Aug 28th, 2008 @ 4:23 PM

In jh71283's defence sometimes it pays to be a full up member of the cofeehouse, and participating in debate. Please read both threads, you will find that it is for more accurate than Hanselman.

AdamKinney
Agent of Change

In reply to vesuvius

#Aug 28th, 2008 @ 12:13 AM

Great idea, perhaps I can catch Lee at Adobe MAX and ask him Smiley

We are working on putting together a series of videos that go through the design phases of building a WPF app. I'm looking forward to it because I think it will really demonstrate the type of thinking you're looking for.

Jaime Rodriguez
jaimer

To iparag, ubiquity of the framework is happening.. All new Windows Vista Machines ship with full 3.0 ... and when windows update kicks in these will be updated to 3.5 SP1. Same for machines running .NET 20 - the number there is fairly large already.

For the new users, we have client profile. I agree that it has been confusing this month, we released it early (before the tools and before windows update).. Mea culpa there... [not mine personally, speaking on behalf of WPF team].. The reason we released it was for developers to start testing/planning... messy for a few weeks, but shortly all that will be over and Client profile will still be a 200K bootstrapper that can have a .NET app and running in < 10 mins and a 28 MB download. so it should help...

aL_ -- hear ya on install time.. We will continue to improve that as much as we can.. but there is a lot going on at install (GAC, NGEN, optimize, etc.. ) .. we are working on it is all I can honestly say..

vesuvius, great advise; we do hope to get more designers on C9 along the way.. keep nagging Adam about it.. I will do the same!

[Jaime Rodriguez, new to C9, thanks to Adam for the pointer to the thread]..