Comment Feed for Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War (PingShow on Channel 9)

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

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Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Mattew Rochow — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:00:38 GMT

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Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

hasan ozen — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:26:51 GMT

good

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

punkouter — Fri, 22 May 2009 10:58:17 GMT

Btw,... whats wrong with QR Code ? It's being used everywhere here in Japan.

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

punkouter — Fri, 22 May 2009 10:54:27 GMT

Bring Zune to Japan (and the rest of the world)...please.... :$

Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Laura Foy — Tue, 19 May 2009 18:11:13 GMT

The_Saint- I love your comment style and those BMW ads are badass!

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

athman baathman — Tue, 19 May 2009 17:17:36 GMT

east or west iphone is the best

for me the only differene that matter abt zune its capability for wireless connection despite its colour i like the silver

and abt offie 2010 technical preview

it is already been leaked to torrents websites i dont know why is this big ads when it is already been leaked as we heard

anyhow waiting for the technical preview from microsoft website itself

Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Max — Tue, 19 May 2009 17:07:21 GMT

Excellent points and good logic. FYI: the figures I mentioned are from the article.

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

The_Saint — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:34:22 GMT

Random thought stream approaching->

Ad campaign war = combative, Mac vs PC = tired, My Dad is bigger than your Dad = so what! Office 2010 mini-ad thing, why is the camera moving away from the subject (the office logo), to me this infers that you want to get away from Office 2010. Ownership vs subscription, I'm an ancient relic, ownership every time, subscriptions are money down the drain. Tags look like they are behind bars and need freeing from their imprisonment, they also look angry. Recent ad campaigns, BMW the longer versions, links below. Microsoft ads = left brain, Apple = right brain. Microsoft improving in the creative space recently though, needs to be bolder and get out of it's (left brain) comfort zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaRtgTOa0I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zCrpzpV2e0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSl6KIZAsNI

Especially like 'Ticker' and 'Star'. 'See how it feels' = pure art.

Finally, Microsoft should stop being distracted by Apple, each time you mention them, you are giving them free advertising; then people get curious and go investigate.

-> and, relax... All of the above IMHO ;-)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Allan Lindqvist — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:38:00 GMT

.. witch translates to 4 vista holes and 5 osx holes that remains unpatched.. the percentage is only lower because there are more advisories for osx :) and even couning the extra years, osx has ten times the holes but has only been out for roughly 3 times as long

and again, microsoft doesnt claim their os is problem free. apple does.

Re: Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Chadk — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:05:53 GMT

OSX was shipped in 2000. Vista was shipped in 2007. That's 7 years worth of extra holes.

Yet 7% of all holes known in Vista are unpatched. Only 4% have yet to be fixed in OSX.

And if you take a look at the exploit which was in OSX, many of them have to do with third-party software.

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Maddus Mattus — Tue, 19 May 2009 11:45:48 GMT

Phew,..

That was a rollacoster ride!

You guys use way to much volume and stop abusing the poor 9-Guy! It's not a stress doll!

Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Allan Lindqvist — Tue, 19 May 2009 11:27:43 GMT

surely you dont mean that microsoft is "the cool guy" :) imo the apple ads are the equivalent of a bully picking on a nerd, the nerd (microsoft) is technically superior but just not "cool". the bully (apple) is pretty but shallow and talks big but the features are mediocre..

thats how i feel about apple and thats just my oppinion :) the apple ads are flat out lying and thats not cool..

27 aribitrary code execution flaws is not really "beeing secure" now is it :) both windows and osx has bugs but a big part of the "apple [marketing] experience" is that there are no bugs and no viruses. there arent any claims like that for windows.. also, office updates are included in windows update and alot of the bug fixes concern office, not windows itself.

secunia lists 94 vulns for vistas entire lifetime. unforunetly they've bundled up all the vulns for all osx versions (934 in total) so i can to an apples to apples [hah] comparison, but still. at the rate osx is going, it wont take long to hit 94 :)

in any case. apple claims osx is secure. it isnt. no os is :)

@max
dont sweat it :)

Re: Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Allan Lindqvist — Tue, 19 May 2009 11:08:36 GMT

i think the key thing is that channel9 is about x at microsoft. having a show about marketing is fine, but having a marketing show is not :) re watching this ep i actually think they do a pretty good job in having the show being about marketing, the ads are discussed, not really presented..

it would actually be kinda interesting to hear from the marketing folks at microsfot and how they do what they do. microsoft marketing used to be really bad [hey, it sunk vista, a great os] but now something seems to have changed, atleast a little :)

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Chadk — Tue, 19 May 2009 08:50:47 GMT

Max,

you stated that the Mac platform patched 67 holes. However you leave out the fact that only 27 of those were actually arbitrary code execution holes.

And you kinda seem to ignore the fact that 10.5.7 was JUST released. 10.5.6 was released in December, 2008. That's 6 months, in which timeframe Windows had 6 monthly updates, and a number of urgent patches, which were out of cycle.

Now if you do the math, and go by the 14 fixes which you quote, then 6 * 14 = 84.

Now that's ignoring the fact that Apple has to patch things which are bundled with the OS, like flash, for instance. Bugs which the Windows version has too. It's like if Windows update carried Flash updates. In fact, 3 of the bugs in 10.5.7 WAS in flash.

But it's entirely reasonable to argue that it takes too long for Apple to patch things. But here's why: Their whole brand relies on the fact that everything is tested and it's a controlled environment. Apple has their 10.5.x updates, which come out every x months. However, they are then actually tested by developers, making sure that they don't break things.

As for the subscription service: I can download ALL the music I want, from my ISP, at no extra cost on my bill. So hell no if I'm paying 15USD/Month for a thing, which I can get in Denmark anyways.

EDIT: Also, you ignore the fact that Apple's adverts are FUNNY, much unlike Microsoft's. It's like the small guy in the classroom taking the piss on the cool guy in the class, who then tries to be all serious and fail epicly at it :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Max — Tue, 19 May 2009 06:20:35 GMT

I watched myself while trying to put myself in your shoes and you all are right... I'm coming off too marketing-like. My apologies, fellow niners.

To the point about bias, however, I really do believe in using the best technology for you. So while the iPhone is not for me, I will never deny its absolutely superior web browsing capabilities. And I will even admit here in this public forum that I prefer GMail due to its simplicity and integrated chat that many of my friends can often be found using.

I am a technology enthusiast first, a Microsoft employee second, and Charles' friend third. :P

Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

eugene1772 — Tue, 19 May 2009 05:13:22 GMT

totally agree on you the zune post one. sad :( and here i am wanting to try my xna game on the zune.

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

eugene1772 — Tue, 19 May 2009 05:11:37 GMT

i love the zune pass as well, the only problem is getting it in other countries outside the US. I know the zune is only sold in the states but you can still use the zune pass if you purchase it using a card. i just hope one day MS will sell the zune in other countries. :)

ping back to my blog for those of you outside US http://eugeneblogs.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/using-a-zune-pass-outside-of-usa/

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Renaud Bompuis — Tue, 19 May 2009 05:03:02 GMT

I like Ping but I'm not sure that getting into the Apple vs MS space is really going to get anywhere or bring anything constructive to the table.
I'd prefer Channel 9 to stay away from these topics that should be better left to the marketing machine.
Being MS employees, you can't really be expected to be completely candid and unbiased on the issue and you can't expect your public to find you candid and unbiased.
There is nothing wrong with rooting for your own company but if I want to see Apple propaganda and be entertained by the level of discourse surrounding them I can just go to youtube to watch them and read the 'my machine is better than your, suck it' comments.

Channel 9 is a source of technical information and I'd like to see it stay focused on that.
I'd like, and expect, MS to take the higher moral ground on this and just ignore the pettiness.
I like that Channel 9 is offering videos for both the Zune and the iPod. It sound like a small thing but it's a clear statement of what Channel 9 stands for: being pragmatic and communicating with developers is more important than the brand of PC or video player they use.
Good luck finding anything comparable at Apple.

Oh by the way, after resisting purchasing an iPod for years, I relented the other day because the Zune 120Gb I really wanted isn't available where I live.
Not just that but there is not s single Zune you can buy here or anywhere near here. Can't order it online either.
MS is taking too long exporting the Zune outside of the US. In the meantime Apple is left with the whole market for itself.
And that isn't Apple's fault.

Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Charles — Tue, 19 May 2009 02:19:34 GMT

A question arises about the scope of Channel 9. Are only developers and IT pros interested in the content we provide? Do we only target developers and IT folks? Should we not offer multiple content types to enable Channel 9, the communication philosophy, for a variety of customers and interested parties, with necessarily varied conceptual frameworks?

Channel 9 has always been more than a community extension of MSDN... But you know this. Implicitly. Nobody tells you what to be interested in. Right? We will do our damn best to offer what you want in addition to what other people want, who may not want for the same things as you.

Is it OK for C9 to evolve? You better believe we will be compatible with the past (Ping and Going Deep and This Week on Channel 9 and 10-4 and random long Charles interviews with orders of magnitude smarter people than himself, etc, can coexist here as here is Channel 9, which is more of a conceptual framework than it is a website or RSS feed or Video or Text post).

Channel 9 is a way, not only a destination, brothers and sisters.

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Dark_Halmut — Tue, 19 May 2009 01:45:17 GMT

You're preaching to the choir by making this kind of video on this kind of site.

I was really let down by by this video. We're IT pros and developers here, we don't care so much about dirt throwing between corporate MS and Apple companies.

I thought ping was a view of whats going inside of Microsoft. This just isn't that.

Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Charles — Tue, 19 May 2009 00:03:27 GMT

If you make an investment in the future (losing market share in the interim as a side effect), then that's the risk you take. Who's to say we aren't making gains and innovating these technologies outside the scope of social networking communication and press releases? :)

Re: Re: Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Allan Lindqvist — Mon, 18 May 2009 23:56:29 GMT

yeah i see your point :) counter arguing the mac ads is fine and that really needs to be done.. they think they can get away with anything :P just imagine if microsoft had a campaign like that about apple, apple would suuuuuuueeeee :P but talking about marketing as you do most of the ep, isnt marketing :)

the max <3 zune parts are the ones in danger of the marketing slide imo :) but the man loves his music player and thats totaly fine, but the zune just isnt appealing enough for most people :/ its like win mobile, it could be soo great... but it isnt :( or atleast its unclear why [and thus, if] its better than the competition. simply saying its great doesnt make it so :/

maybe if max had some zune specials where the awsome features are described [in a non markety way, keeping away from phrases like "next-gen"]? thatd be cool.. max could talk to the dev team and the designers and prove how great the zune is :)

again, im not saying you've fallen down the marketing hole now, but keep keeping an eye out :)

@moe

exactly.. "think diffrent"? all macs looks basically the same, and for a long time, all ipods did look exactly the same. how is that "diffrent" one has to wonder.. apple truly is everything they accuse microsoft of beeing..

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

rhm — Mon, 18 May 2009 22:49:53 GMT

Wow, nice marketing video Channel 9. <yawn>

But since we're on the subject - the fact that Microsoft still thinks it's competing with the iPod just shows how out of touch they are. I suppose MSN Search thinks they're still competing with Google too. Oh...

Re: Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Edward Moemeka — Mon, 18 May 2009 22:33:18 GMT

The only thing that comes to mind when i watch those apple commercials is that Karl Marx had it wrond. If only he had focused on fancy graphic design and being 'trendy', thingls like communism, lack of free will and lack of choice would have prevailed. Apple and thier line of products are the classic example of complete dictatorships housed in a nice package. For intance, I've had a windows mobile phone for years. I've never had to pay for ringtones or have service on the device in order to use it. IN fact i could literally drag and drop media from my desktop onto the phone. I could purchase it and use it just as a PIM if i so desired. Is that the case ofr apple's entry into the handled device world? Windows is about FREEDOM, CHOICE, REPRESENTATION. Microsoft to me has ALWAYS had an open ear to the community and done the responsible (not holier than thou) thing. If I were involved in the Windows Ad campaign i would make a commercial which mimiced the 1984 commercial apple launched many years ago since that company has turned into everything it preached against.