IE9 RTW Due Date, A Big Thank You, MIX11, and a Unicorn Named Frank

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It's always fun to talk to Dean Hachamovitch about IE. This conversation is no exception except for how early we filmed and that Dean and Ryan Gavin are joined, since it took place at that magical hour between exiting night and breaking day, by the team unicorn named Frank, who doesn't like to drink iced tea.

Today (it's now 8AM PST (UTC-8)), the IE team announced the delivery date of the final version (RTW) of IE9: March 14, 2011. It's been a little over a year since IE9 Platform Preview 1 became available at MIX10. One year from announcement to RTW, with new platform previews every 6-7 weeks in between. This is amazing work that wouldn't have been possible without the incredibly useful, detailed, and numerous pieces of feedback from YOU, the community. THANK YOU. Big shout out to users Wheels of Flames and the dee!! 400 pieces of feedback submitted between the two of them! 17,000 total pieces of detailed customer feedback. 36 million downloads of IE9 Beta and RC. Very nice work!

Additionally, Ryan commits Dean to keynote at MIX11(are you coming? Get yourself to Vegas!) and Dean commits himself to appearing on C9 Live at MIX11 Smiley All around great news today!! Of course, there's the free and open(bar) IE team sponsored party at SXSW to celebrate the web.

Here's the link mentioned in the conversation related to supporting standards that are in unstable implementation states (that’s what http://html5labs.com is for, as Dean mentioned. This is a place to play with unstable standards implementations and provide feedback…): Web Sockets video: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7991991/

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The Discussion

  • User profile image
    jbristowe

    WAHOO!

  • User profile image
    Dovella

    Congrat!"!!!!!!!! I Love IE9 Thank you. (PS remember Bookmark sync without Live Mesh or other plug in )

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    Cool, looking forward to using IE9 on my phone!

  • User profile image
    felix9

    OK, IE9 is the user's story about HTML5, now you should deliver the HTML5 story to the developers !

    and, it looks like JavaScript is the new hot 'dynamic language' at Microsoft, wonder what will happen on wider support of it in the DevDiv, like, revamp the JS.NET to be a fist-class ?

    I remember Ballmer mention the tree-pillar of Windows 8 application platform: the native, the managed, and the javascript. what is the 'javascript as native app' thing all about ?

  • User profile image
    antony

    IE9 is off-course better but something i found wrong :-
    I login in a website [asp.net-MVC2] and found that logout not worked their. i am also found that they work in chrome and firefox. i test the case using Firefox and Firecookie [extension]
    the code they used for delete cookie
    function deleteCookie(cookieName) {    var dt = new Date(1, 1, 1);    document.cookie = cookieName + "=0;expires=" + dt.toGMTString() + ";" + "path=/;";
    }
    it's not worked in any version of IE but also in firefox and chrome. this case show me how much security IE 9 have. ogin in a website and click on  logout and someone else use your account and make money of yours and you say IE9 is secure becase MSFT made it.
    you make tabs like chrome that's good [well tabs invent by Firefox but Firefox itself not have smoth tabbing].
    IE9 tabs is too small to use. Firefox have big one but not smooth tabbing feature [chrome tabbing is great].
     
    IE9 still have no plugin , customization, personas , themes , addons, browser extension ,apps, browser helper [any other word MSFT use to simply talks customization] because it's a habit of MSFT that they give name to everyone like jscript for Javascript.
    IE9 developer is great but their is no good way to make canges in HTML , css even javascript testing maybe working better by using Visual Web Developer.
     
    how much feedback you have on IE. i am sure that their is no one put feedback on IE. who care about that but as a chance see the community outside IE. their is huge amount of community make chrome and firefox better whenever someone work on IE9 and thing IE9 is best because they never see something outside IE. the condition of IE developer goes like frog who never see something outside where they are.
    you make IE9 but show me what thing IE9 have :-
    performance , jumplist and many other feature you make because Windows come from MSFT and MSFT have control on windows. what you can make if Windows produced by Google or Mozilla or any other. [nothing]
    you make them in WPF not for user want but still fall in love of promoting WPF. Live mail 2011 is a nice example. user need to learn them again even they need nothing more or expected more from 2011 version.
    IE9 you make for what ? only for windows 7.
    IE9 have a great feature because MSFT build Windows. i thing Google can show as same as in Chroumium OS when they completely make them.
    then  comparision look like this :-
    IE9 have jumplist and many other thing because MSFT made Windows and Chrome have this , this , this because Chromium OS made by Google.
    Mozilla in this case is good because they still have no OS made where they can implement this type stupidity.
    if you hide the jump list and other feature who only you can make because windows their is only some feature you can see that HTML5 , CSS3 and SVG graphic support who Firefox and chrome both have from a long time because  MSFT released and show early too late and other never show them so publicity is surely come to MSFT.
    please show me the thing you make in IE9 who you can make whenever in the case of  Windows not come from MSFT.
    Thanks to hear my voice.
     

  • User profile image
    Charles

    , felix9 wrote

    OK, IE9 is the user's story about HTML5, now you should deliver the HTML5 story to the developers !

    ...

    Um, all of the the patform previews we released specifically for developers...
    C

  • User profile image
    felix9

    no, I mean HTML5 application development tooling support in Visual Studio.

  • User profile image
    dagamer34

    That WebSockets video definitely showed why Microsoft doesn't update its browser with every bleeding edge technology. Unfortunately, IE is usually almost exclusively in business environments and attempting to 1/2 support 1/2 finished standards means that we'll get an IE6 all over again (lots of things broken that need to be coded specifically for a browser). Better to not support a feature at all than to support it 1/2 way.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    @felix9: I see. There is no information available about this and it's unrelated to this specific announcement (the RTM of IE9, Dean keynoting at MIX11 and appearing on C9 Live @MIX11, etc). For tools, the tools people will speak when they have something to share.
    C

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    @felix9: That was (will be, depending on if you have MSDN) released with VS 2010 SP1.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    @dagamer34: I don't follow. What are you talking about? As Dean said quite clearly, IE9 supports stable standards. IE6 all over again? Come on...

    C

  • User profile image
    codedj

    Awesome. I guess it's too late but I hope they fix the font issue that still exists in the RC. I know they use sub-pixel rendering which VS2010 also does but the fonts are still not as crisp as in VS2010. I remember VS also had the same issue during the beta. Also, I hope they remove the grey border around websites running in non-IE9 standards mode. Not sure who else other than developers are going to benefit with the border.

    Overall a great leap forward. Congratulations to the team.

  • User profile image
    Stilgar

    If they release with the unreadable crappy font rendering I am turning on compatibility view forever. Good for all the standards work isn't it? Also you will have to ban me from channel 9 and the IE blog because I will use some very bad words.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    @Stilgar: You are free to speak your mind! Just be respectful (use good bad words... Smiley )

    C

  • User profile image
    Stilgar

    I hope I won't have to, will I?

  • User profile image
    Charles

    @Stilgar: Only you know that answer, in fact. Smiley Can you elaborate a bit on what's upsetting you so much?
    C

  • User profile image
    Stilgar
  • User profile image
    Charles

    @Stilgar: Broken link.
    C

  • User profile image
    codedj

    Charles, hope you can get the answer for all of us to Stilgar's comment. Like I said VS2010 uses the same API but is a lot more crisp than IE9 RC. May be it is because VS has to deal with a single font whereas IE does not have control over the font on a given webpage.

  • User profile image
    Stilgar

    @Charles I believe you should be logged into Connect to see it. Basically it is about the new font rendering that is supposed to be correct but looks terrible (on low DPI displays like all mainstream monitors). It is the same problem that VS2010 had with the switch to WPF.

  • User profile image
    battlebottle

    @codedj:

    @Stilgar:

    As I understand it, VS2010 uses DirectWrite via WPF to render fonts. It doesn't however use sub-pixel positioning. It renders them in exactly the same way that GDI renders them (DirectWrite supports this as a legacy feature).

    IE9 renders fonts much more like, mac osx, linux and photoshop and almost any other modern font renderer. IMHO I feel the problem is for most people is that the font rendering in IE clashed badly with font rendering in the rest of windows. When the whole system is rendered this way I don't think people would be as easily bothered by it. I've been using IE9 as my main browser for awhile and for the most part I feel mosts fonts looks better more than worse with it. Though I agree small fonts do tend to be harder to read. I'd like to see the IE team make a post about this and see how much they've thought about these issues. But over all I feel like sub-pixel positioning is the way to go in the future. There's also always going to be people who prefere the regular cleartype rendering no matter what, just as there is a fair group of people who are upset that IE9 won't render text with no anti-alias at all.

  • User profile image
    Stilgar

    They have a post about the new rendering. They claim it is more correct. I don't care if it is more correct I care that it looks bad. It looks bad because of the low DPI on our displays. Make it an option or something. Otherwise I'll just force IE9 to work like IE8 or migrate to Chrome.

  • User profile image
    battlebottle

    @Stilgar:

    Yet every image you ever saw on the internet that had text in it made with photoshop looked exactly the same more or less. And mac and linux distros use the same rendering technuiqes. I'm sure IE9 is almost invariably tested with regular DPI settings that you are also using. People have said, and still say, the same things about cleartype GDI rendering as opposed to non anti-aliased text of windows 98. It's not as simple a debate as saying "it looks bad to me so they should remove it".

  • User profile image
    codedj

    @battlebottle: Thanks for the info. That explains why in VS 2010 beta the font looked bad and appeared to be fixed in RTM.

    I have been using IE9 full time since Beta. It is not terrible but I definitely notice the difference. When I sense a difference (negative) in the font, the first thing I look for is a grey border around the page which tells me if the page is rendered in IE9 Standards mode. If it is awful on a particular website, hurts my eye, I just switch to IE8 Standards mode.

  • User profile image
    Stilgar

    @battlebottle I like the clear type in IE8 better. Obviously you cannot tell me and million others that I am not right and I do not like clear type better because I know best what I like. It seems like codedj likes IE8 font rendering better. If it is not clear what is better then there should be an option. BTW Visual Studio team decided that the old clear type is better. Why does the IE team think otherwise?

  • User profile image
    stun

    @Dean

    1. Do we still have to wait 2-3 years for the next major version of IE?
    2. What are your thoughts on releasing it a bit more frequently?

    Thanks for a much better browser!  I love it.

  • User profile image
    Jigar Mehta

    Somebody from IE team should read this,
    http://www.phoboslab.org/log/2011/03/the-state-of-html5-audio
    And IE9 looks great release, please keep pushing new releases faster.. nobody will wait for 2/3 years.

  • User profile image
    Heavens​Revenge

    Nice to hear, hope everything goes smoothly for the release.

    I'm not as adamant concerning the HTML5 spec as I am the C++0x spec, as tags and features of HTML5 unlike C++ is completely possible and fine to implement as piecemeal.  Theres no real need to worrk about trying to go the whole way or push boundaries with HTML5 as tags are weird and able to be simulated using alternate methods.

    Just keep working on it with service packs or patches as things marinate and HTML5 gets forged into what it will truly be.  I just hope this is why I consider HTML5 implementation as possible to be done in phases and the C++0x isn't as maleable for choice on what to and what not to impliment.

    FYI... This might be too late to hope for but I'd LOVE bookmark syncing to my Windows Live SkyDrive similar to the Office 2010 has the ability to save directly to SkyDrive.  Bookmark sync is one of the really amazing things which doesn't seem like its too useful, but since every other browser has bookmark sync, and considering how many .... Non-developers just want bookmarks backed up and restored during a system re-installation.  Such a bookmark sync mechanism would really help if you guys/gurls have not already thought about such a convenience.  Exporting/Importing to an HTML bookmark file is too oldschool and too reminicent of database restoration IMO.

    Until next time.

  • User profile image
    Escamillo

    This browser is not ready to be released.  There is a serious bug that has been reported dozens of times during both the beta and the RC, and that is that IE9 does not render pictures with any reliability.  I am tired of loading a page, only to see the pictures not show up, and be force to do "Duplicate Tab" over and over until I finally produce a tab that will actually render the pictures that the web page contains.

    I and others have reported this MANY times at connect.microsoft.com.  There's also a neowin thread on the problem.  http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/958964-images-break-in-internet-explorer-beta-9080276000/

    The problem goes unsolved, and seemingly dismissed and uninvestigated.  I've seen some of bugs at Connect dismissed as "Not Repro", others closed as "Fixed in the RC" (which is false), and others remain open but with no sense of urgency.

    I really don't understand the problem here, as to why the IE team seems not to care about simple, basic, and essential functionality.

  • User profile image
    mahara

    Just as @Stilgar and @codedj have said above, I personally want IE team to have a clarification about this blurry font issue, and finally fix it. They have been silent about this issue so far (and some denied it). But that just doesn't seem right either since this issue keep on making me very annoyed, at least for me and many others (people who have validated this issue in the Connect report above).

    So, IE team, please speak transparently about this issue.

  • User profile image
    freefly

    connect site is a simple joke!!! period.
    @antony : I completely agree with you ...
    When will IE team will realize that the saving the session is an important feature to browsing so that I can get back what I was reading or doing when I come back to my computer. ( especially when using laptop ). I thought IE team actaully do user research surveys... I think they should see the firefox most used features.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Been using IE 9 RC at work and am liking it. Maybe the IE 9 guys could offer a switch for the font-autists though.

  • User profile image
    Ted.w

    IE 9 font is not pleasing to the eye, unfortunately.  It annoys a lot of people.  A switch (in tools-options) would have been nice. 

  • User profile image
    Ted.w

    what happened to the dropdown on the back and forward buttons? any way to get them back?

    EDIT: now I get it, looks like hold down mouse for a couple seconds, or right click is the new way to do it.

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