Charles

Internet Explorer 7: The Browser. The Team. The Tour. Part 1

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We recently went over to building 2 to meet some of the folks responsible for IE7. Senior Program Manager and seasoned Niner Dave Massy introduces us to what's new in IE7 (and outlines all the plans for IE8 - just kidding) before taking the new Channel 9 camera (which is tapeless) and Charles on a random walk of the hallways (emphasis on random) where we run into Pete LePage, Product Manager for developers who tags along as we meet various IE People who discuss their work on IE7.

In part one of this tour, you will meet:

Tony Schreiner, Developer on User Experience. Li-Hsin Huang, Lead Developer on User Experience. Roland Tokumi, Lead Developer on Platform. Justin Rogers, Developer on Object Model and CSS parsing. Marc Silbey, Program Manager on Protected Mode. Robert Gu, Lead Developer on Protected Mode. Travis Leithead, Program Manager on Object Model. Vidya Nallathimmayyagari, Test Lead on protected mode. Eric Olson, test Lead on compatibility. Peter Gurevich, Program Manager for display and performance. Cyra Richardson, Lead Program Manager for layout. Harley Rosnow, Developer Architect. John Berry, Development Manager. Shawn Woods, Architect. Niner Bruce Morgan, Development Manager and Iron Man responsible for User experience and RSS. Saloni Rai, Program Manager. Doug Stamper, Group Program Manager for the Project Release (and old colleague of Charles' back in his Windows Update days...).

Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

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    The Discussion

    • Cyonix
      Great video, i really enjoyed the tour
    • daSmirnov
      I love tours like this, so when's part two!?
    • Charles
      daSmirnov wrote:
      

      I love tours like this, so when's part two!?



      Tomorrow.
      C
    • Devils​Rejection
      so you're going to start competing with firefox? i mean they want version 3.0 out in early 2007!
    • Jason Cox
      Great video, I loved the roaming of the halls and just meeting random people.

      And I dont supose I could get my hands on some of those IE7 posters and stickers...
    • Rowan
      Good video.
    • Secret​Software

      Good Video.

      One question to the team. Why is switching between tabs in IE7 slower than in FireFox? i mean Switching between one tab to another  should be very super fast. But in RC3 its slow. Can you explain?

    • Jason Cox
      SecretSoftware wrote:
      

      Good Video.

      One question to the team. Why is switching between tabs in IE7 slower than in FireFox? i mean Switching between one tab to another  should be very super fast. But in RC3 its slow. Can you explain?

      SecretSoftware, I may not be on the IE team, but for me switching between tabs is instantaneous.
    • Minh
      Did I hear that right? You guys took 5 yrs off to work on .Net as the next connected platform?

      how long was your crunch time? (the 6-7 day/wk mentioned)
    • littleguru
      I'm watching the video and Dave said something about the challenges to release a new version each year. Something came up to my mind while he was saying that the web designer/dev needs to support several versions when creating a web page, if they release a new browser each year.

      My idea: why isn't it possible to create the whole rendering engine (HTML + CSS + etc.) as plug ins and allow the page to decide which engine to take?

      By putting a tag in the page IE knows that the page needs the rendering engine of IE7 - on another page the attributes of the tag are altered to use the IE8's rendering engine... Without that tag the rendering engine of the lastest build is used.

      Example:
      <html>
      <head>
         <title>foo</title>
         <render browser="msie" version="8.0" />
      </head>
      <body>
         interesting stuff... bla bla bla
      </body>
      </html>


      I know it's a crazy idea (and it's no W3C standard), but I was wondering what other dudes would say about it.
    • Massif

      Now, obviously you don't mean that the webpage targets the browser (i.e. saying "I only work in version 6!") Because then new browsers / alternative browsers wouldn't work. Or the pages' would get really big saying "I only work in IE 6!, FF 1.5, Opera 8, lynx..." blah blah.

      So what you're saying really is that the page needs to say "I'm using HTML version 4.0 exactly, and only render me in that mode." so the browser can say "ah ha! it's HTML 4.0, I've got an engine for that."

      So... Something a lot like the DOCTYPE declaration would be what you want then?

      Of course, I'm mangling your words, but I think that's what you would have wanted if you'd thought about it a bit longer.

    • littleguru
      Hmmm. This tag idea was an optional thing. Just a hint for the browser telling it that the page is optimized for IE7 or IE8 or whatever. If another browser can't do anything with it, it's just ignoring it and using it's default renderer to render the whole page.

      I came up with the tag because telling IE6 that the page is pure HTML 4.0 doesn't work properly. I mean it is still using it's non standard way to render the page and most people have tweaked pages for one version of IE.

      By specifying the tag you can give IE a hint that this page is optimized for IE version X and that engine should be used to render the whole thing. Means the page looks exactly the same having installed IE11 but having it optimized for IE7, because IE11 uses the IE7 engine to render the thing.

      Btw: this is not IE only. Could also be implemented by Firefox, Opera etc.

      <html>
      <head>
         <title>foo</title>
         <render browser="msie" version="8.0" />
         <render browser="firefox" version="1.5" />
         <render browser="opera" version="3.0" />
         <!-- other browser -->
      </head>
      <body>
         interesting stuff... bla bla bla
      </body>
      </html>

      Just a crazy idea... as mentioned earlier Smiley
    • qwert231
      Hey, using IE7 for the first time, and let me tell you, I love the view where you can see more than one tab on the same screen. However, is there a way to zoom in? Right now I can see 3 accross. I'd like to zoom, so that I see 2 across but the panels where the pages are are a little bigger.
    • Sven Groot
      Is it me or is the sound out of sync by just a little?
    • littleguru
      Sven Groot wrote:
      Is it me or is the sound out of sync by just a little?


      It's out of sync.
    • AQ
      If anyone on the IE team is watching this thread I have a question I'd like answered.

      I need to write an application in .NET that Data Mines the IE Browsing History of several machines on my LAN. Is there an easy way to do this? I mean does the Browsing History exist as an xml file or other similarly accessible format that would make it easy to extract the data from? If it's more complicated, then how would I go about harvesting the data?

      I know on my system alone I've got a good years worth of browsing history data. One goal of the application would be to extract all terms entered into search engines and then index that data for reference. There is also a wealth of other statistics that can be generated. So far I haven't seen any easy way for developers to get at this data. I was hoping IE7 would provide a way to acces this data, perhaps in an IE7 SDK with .NET assemblies?? 

      I know most folks are more interested in deleting their browsing history, but there is really a treasure trove of information contained in the browsing trail, and developing an API to mine and share that data would be a very cool thing. Obviously there are privacy issues galore with this sort of thing, but this is strictly for personal data, on an in-house network.

      You can tell infinitely more about a person by looking at their last 1000 search terms than by any other identifier I can think of. Smiley

    • Sampy
      littleguru wrote:
      
      Sven Groot wrote: Is it me or is the sound out of sync by just a little?


      It's out of sync.


      This video (like all videos now a days) runs thru my compression tool. I'll take a look at the raw output.
    • Sampy
      I'm not seeing the sync problem.

      Did you click on the video and "activate the control"? Are you seeking or doing anything funky with the player other than hitting play?
    • Sven Groot
      Sampy wrote:
      I'm not seeing the sync problem.

      Did you click on the video and "activate the control"? Are you seeking or doing anything funky with the player other than hitting play?

      I'm using the download. It's not out of sync by match. Just enough to make the lip sync feel wrong.
    • Charles
      Sven Groot wrote:
      
      Sampy wrote: I'm not seeing the sync problem.

      Did you click on the video and "activate the control"? Are you seeking or doing anything funky with the player other than hitting play?

      I'm using the download. It's not out of sync by match. Just enough to make the lip sync feel wrong.


      I'm not seeing this issue with the download file. I am watching it over DSL. Can you provide more information (your system, connection speed, WMP version, etc...)?
      C
    • Michigan Ray
      Great Video
    • petknep_home
      I think IUrlHistory should solve your problem. Live.com and MSDN search are your friend Cool

      AQ wrote:
      If anyone on the IE team is watching this thread I have a question I'd like answered.

      I need to write an application in .NET that Data Mines the IE Browsing History of several machines on my LAN. Is there an easy way to do this? I mean does the Browsing History exist as an xml file or other similarly accessible format that would make it easy to extract the data from? If it's more complicated, then how would I go about harvesting the data?

      <petknep snip>

    • AQ
      Yeah baby, that's the one I was looking for! Grazie Wink

      Here's a link to a managed wrapper if anyone is interested:
      http://www.codeproject.com/csharp/ponta.asp 

      petknep_home wrote:
      I think IUrlHistory should solve your problem. Live.com and MSDN search are your friend

      AQ wrote: If anyone on the IE team is watching this thread I have a question I'd like answered.

      I need to write an application in .NET that Data Mines the IE Browsing History of several machines on my LAN. Is there an easy way to do this? I mean does the Browsing History exist as an xml file or other similarly accessible format that would make it easy to extract the data from? If it's more complicated, then how would I go about harvesting the data?

      <petknep snip>

    • littleguru
      Charles wrote:
      
      Sven Groot wrote: 
      Sampy wrote: I'm not seeing the sync problem.

      Did you click on the video and "activate the control"? Are you seeking or doing anything funky with the player other than hitting play?

      I'm using the download. It's not out of sync by match. Just enough to make the lip sync feel wrong.


      I'm not seeing this issue with the download file. I am watching it over DSL. Can you provide more information (your system, connection speed, WMP version, etc...)?
      C


      I have downloaded the video. Using Vista RC1.
    • Sven Groot
      Charles wrote:
      
      Sven Groot wrote: 
      Sampy wrote: I'm not seeing the sync problem.

      Did you click on the video and "activate the control"? Are you seeking or doing anything funky with the player other than hitting play?

      I'm using the download. It's not out of sync by match. Just enough to make the lip sync feel wrong.


      I'm not seeing this issue with the download file. I am watching it over DSL. Can you provide more information (your system, connection speed, WMP version, etc...)?
      C

      AMD Athlon64 3000+, Windows Vista x64 5744, WMP11, 100Mbps University connection.

      Note that this is one of the things that I am extremely nitpicky about. If it's off by only a tenth of a second I'll notice something like this, where others might not.

      (And I have no idea how I ended up spelling "much" as "match" in that last post...)
    • Ireney Berezniak
      Hah hah ... I find it interesting how everyone likes tabs "now" Big Smile

      I was an IE user for years, but when Firefox was released, it drastically improved the browsing experience for me.  There is nothing compelling about IE7 that would warrant a switch back, or provide the sort of leap in experience as Firefox did.  IE7 to me still looks like Firefox junior, and that's at a time when Firefox is readying a new major release.

      However, it was great to meet the team. Congrats on the release.

      ib.
    • CecilWard
      Any idea why I am not able to pause/fast-forward/rewind the .wmv while using Windows Media Player 10 (under WinXP SP2)? The relevant controls are grayed out in the UI. It's a real nuisance that I can't pause Dave Massy and friends, and can't jump in to a particular point. I can only go back to the start and play the entire thing from the beginning. :: Cecil Ward.
    • jedimasterk
      VERY COOL!. Duh Huh!!Big Smile. Nice Office Rooms. Looks like some of them sleep their.Cool
    • nrohit
      http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6656808-6.html?tag=btn

      How would you respond to the above comparison between Firefox2 and IE7.

      Do you think it is biased?

      Is this a case of open source being better than paid software?
    • brokeMyLeg​Biking

      I downloaded ie7 on the recommendation and excitement of this video. But I'm disappointed in the frequency of crashes.

      When will the final relase be available? I hope they are still working to improve ie7's stability?

    • DMassy
      brokeMyLegBiking wrote:
      

      I downloaded ie7 on the recommendation and excitement of this video. But I'm disappointed in the frequency of crashes.

      When will the final relase be available? I hope they are still working to improve ie7's stability?



      If you are having stability problems with IE7 we recomend you disable addons. Frequent crashes are often caused by old addons that need to be updated.

      Thanks
      -Dave

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