Scott Guthrie: Visual Studio 2010 and .NET Framework 4.0

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Presentation from Scott Guthrie on September 25 2009.

Scott gives a presentation with lots of demos of our new development environment VS2010 with our new .NET 4 framework.

Organized by DotNED developer community

AFAS Theatre, Leusden, The Netherlands



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    The Discussion

    • User profile image

      Cool. It was a privilige to be there. Looking forward to VS2010!

    • User profile image

      cool stuff, as always with the Gu Smiley awsome to get some  news on beta2, cant wait!

      this post is not visible on the front page though :/



      awsome sutff.. that javascript intellisense is INCREDIBLE!



      i wonder if the new EF stuff will work with mysql.. it'd be great if microsoft would make an EF component that created/worked with ansi sql, that you could then use with any provider.

      Mysql are staffed mostly by asshats that for all their promises usually release stuff severals years late, they released an alpha of EF1 support just a couple of months ago. so it would be great if i didnt have to rely on them for EF support..  (why dont i just switch to sql server? belive me i want to, but i cant for legacy and price issues)

    • User profile image

      The person responsible for the video could've done a lot better job at showing the code and what Scott was doing rather than showing Scott talking about the stuff he's doing in VS2010. Missed on a lot of great material because of poor video job.


      The content itself - great!

    • User profile image

      I enjoyed being there! I'm looking forward to VS 2010

    • User profile image

      it's on the homepage now. Thanks for the tip.

    • User profile image

      Would SQL Express help you instead of MySql?

    • User profile image

      sorry no, the reason we use mysql is a ruby on rails webapp that was created with it. we coul probobly migrate but it would be a major investment esp. in time, something that we dont have right now Sad

      so im stuck with mysql..

      after nagging mysql to get out their EF support since .net3.5 beta, after their promised to  support it publicly, they still dont fully support it. they blamed it on som licence snafu, but what they eventually release a couple of months ago was till an alpha, not really usable in production..


      it seems strange that EF would not be able to output ansi sql, it would make it soooo much useful

      but then again, EF doesnt even fully support sql CE witch i find absolutly incredible Tongue Out there is a bug in the sqlce support that basically prevents non literal aruments (i.e variables) to be used in queries, making it essencially useless. this issue is several years old and still has not been fixed, there is some hotfix but that includes installing a special hotfixed version of sql CE on the client machine, so its crap from  a deployment standpont..


      wow, negative post Smiley

      EF is awsome.. it could be really  awsome.. if its tacked to sql server it will go unused by many though




      this forum post describes the sql ce issue btw


    • User profile image

      While I think that the enhancements of VS IDE 2010 are cool I find them not as good as R#.

      Please acquire JetBrains and focus resources on other things Smiley


    • User profile image

      Not everything bubbles up to the homepage. Somebody in Redmond(me) manages this process... Smiley


    • User profile image

      Thanks Scott.  Couple questions.

      1) You said deploy can work without any firewall issues, etc.  However, is that true?  Wont you still need some kind of Terrado service (GotoMyPC like) to listen on a public IP and forward that internal?  This is exact senerio I am hoping for now.  Currently, I have to deploy to a Mesh directory, wait for it to trans, and copy over to new site and test and work out any web.config issue I forget to set, etc.  It would be way nice if I could deploy from INET to internal host.  Will WebDeploy work on the port for the site itself, or do you need another port forwarded?


      2) For deploying SQL, I would like to see the following.  Dev and change local db.  When you deploy, it checks the two DBs and Prompts:

      "Column X in Source does not exist on Target, do you want to add - Y/N?" 

      "Column X on Target does not exist in Source, do you want to delete column X on Target - Y/N?"


      The current way of making a change .sql script is time consuming and requires out-of-band work.  I can't just work locally and deploy, I need to go back and forth checking things and building things.


      3) Another good thing would be reverse.  Make a local copy of production.  Say someone has on issue on production.  I want simple way to copy production DB and web site local (with one or two clicks) and start debugging locally.  Maybe even bring over the production debug capture snapshots that show the issue.  Isn't there a new debug thing that does a capture you can rewind? Is that a VS2010 thing?




    • User profile image

      I played with EF provider for mySql also a few months ago.  I don't remember exact issue, but also had some problems with it, and just dropped it.  Fortunately, many hosters (i.e. DiscountASP) has actually dropped mySql as an option and moved to SqlExpress.  Hope mySql gets their EF provider 100% for you.

    • User profile image

      i had issues with more complex queries not beeing transformed correctly (creating invalid sql) . I belive they didnt support multiple inner joins correctly at the time.. also i got some unknown node type errors and query generation was quite slow over all..


      ive half given up on EF support in mysql but instead i put my head down and learned sql, so now im rolling my own sql and using data readers Smiley its not the RAD way, but the resulting app can get pretty fast


      another reason i dropped EF was the lack of poco support, my app needs to work with excel as a back end as well (*shrugs* ..i know) and for that poco was the way to go.


      i do have high hopes for EF4 though Smiley would be great to see an interview with that team *wink@c9crew*

    • User profile image

      What is it with this "plain old" prefix anyway. Plain old XML, plain old CLR objects, etc. It's like everything is now plain and old Tongue Out

    • User profile image

      Cool news, I wait it for years!

    • User profile image

      yeah that is a little weird.. guess we all long for a simpler time sometimes Smiley

    • User profile image

      I agree that the video could have been shot a lot better.  When Scott's showing the IDE, we want to see what he's doing.  Other than that, great stuff.

    • User profile image

      Whoever edited this video sort of blew it. Show the screen, not the useless stage. Silliness.

    • User profile image
      40th Floor

      re: Around the 30 minute mark, about the debugger "going back" and no other debugger doing that.  Watcom's debugger did that way back in 1995.  For OS/2 anyway.  At the time, it didn't seem all that WOW.  15 years of doing without... WOW!

    • User profile image

      The camera person stinks....why do they have to keep zooming out so you can't read the screen or zoom in on Scott?  You rule Scott but I want to see what you're demoing, not you or the entire room!

    • User profile image

      I agree -- ReSharper implements most of these features better, especially the TDD workflow.


      Scott's demo of the TDD workflow pretty much misses the point of TDD and required so much extra typing to allow the IDE to correctly infer things. It should have been able to read like this:


      var controller = new HiScottController();

      var result = controller.SayHello();

      Assert.AreEqual(result.ViewName, "HiScottController");


      The IDE should be able to infer the class name, method name, and supply a very narrow list of potential types for the SayHello() method (based upon the symbols used on the 'result' variable) that the user can choose between.


      Showing people that Assert.IsNotNull() passes on a result from the 'new' operator (which will always be true, and the IDE should have inspected and warned you as such like IntelliJ/ReSharper does) not only shows people the wrong way to think about TDD, but is a poor way to sell these new feature sets.


      It's disappointing to see Microsoft going through the motions of attempting to emulate ReSharper's feature set as a checklist, rather than understanding the intention and innovating a solution based upon the root problem. As least the extensibility improvements should help the next version of ReSharper integrate more deeply without disruption from VS service packs.

    • User profile image

      Is that why my comment from yesterday isn't visible now? Censoring constructive criticism is pretty lame Sad

    • User profile image

      Okay, that was weird. Only when I replied to your comment did mine show up. Caching problems?


      Regardless, sorry for the censorship accusation! Smiley

    • User profile image

      couldn't agree any more

    • User profile image

      Very frustrated.   I'm very tired of spending time on presentations where the CODE is not visible.   We've all seen Scott before.  The wide shots of the projector are completely illegible even at the highest quality.    Why does Channel 9 keep posting this type of  stuff?   Make it useable or don't post the content! 

      The SharePoint 2010 workflows (July) were actually recorded with the properties sheet off-camera on the right side while the persenter was working there.  The Ted Pattison/Andrew Conell SP 2010 video were first released in an unusable quality.   And they have still not gone back in and implemented SL 4 full screen pinning - so that every time you type code into VS on another screen the video shrinks back to an unusable size.  

      Don't get me wrong I'm grateful for the free content and for the parts that were visible, but to have resources so awesome tantalizing you just outside of your reach is infuriating!

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