Tomas Palmer and Tolga Acar - Crypto in Windows Vista

As part of our journey around Windows Vista teams, we wondered what was being done to Outlook Express. Well, for Windows Vista it's been renamed to Windows Mail. And that's not all.
I like that the dbx files are being replaced with individual RFC standard .eml files.
The enhancements for MS newsgroups sound cool.
Oooh, .contact files !!!
Are you going to do a video with the Windows Calendar team?
Don't have more than one person in the room at once again. I have no idea what the quiet guy in the corner (with the sunglasses hanging off his collar) was doing there - other than throwing the conversation off track. Just when we were gonna look at more of WHAT CHANGED IN WINDOWS MAIL, someone interrupted the process.
You really need a part II of this one, Robert.
Ok, I have a question for the Windows Mail team:
I understand that every mail message will now be an .eml file on your harddrive. Well, I have folders with over 200,000 messages in it, so that will mean that there will be folders on my system with more than 200,000 files in it! Wouldn't that be very bad for performance and how long will it take to open such a folder in windows explorer?!
It's funny and nice to see that they used ADS!
I used the exact same strategy when developing a webmail application.
However, I sometimes wonder now whether it wouldn't have been a better idea to store everything in a SQL 2005 database, as you can do fast full-text searches easily that way, and won't have the problem of tens or hundreds of thousands of files sitting in a single file system folder...
dotnetjunkie wrote:However, I sometimes wonder now whether it wouldn't have been a better idea to store everything in a SQL 2005 database...
Each email folder is a different file system folder. The file system folder would only have 200,000 .eml files if all of those messages were in one folder. We don't expect users to navigate to the store folder, unless they want to backup or restore their
mail database.
Users will primarily use the mail UI or the shell search UI. The shell search UI does expect to have to scale to a large number of files.
-Bryan
imorley wrote:I'd like to understand the relationship between Jet, WinFS and Vista. My understanding is that Jet is the Microsoft Access database format.
I like the adhoc style That's what channel 9 is all about.
l0ckergn0me wrote:Don't have more than one person in the room at once again. I have no idea what the quiet guy in the corner (with the sunglasses hanging off his collar) was doing there - other than throwing the conversation off track. Just when we were gonna look at more of WHAT CHANGED IN WINDOWS MAIL, someone interrupted the process.
You really need a part II of this one, Robert.
ZippyV wrote:
On-topic: Yet another stupid Windows [blabla] name. I'm SICK of it! Just keep the name Outlook Express, NO reason to change the name. Use the 'Windows' word for the operating system, nothing else. The idiot that came up with this idea needs to get fired.
Will Outlook be storing contacts etc in the same way as Windows Mail?
It would be great if I could switch between the two applications without having to manually import contacts/emails
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l0ckergn0me wrote:
Don't have more than one person in the room at once again. I have no idea what the quiet guy in the corner (with the sunglasses hanging off his collar) was doing there - other than throwing the conversation off track. Just when we were gonna look at more of WHAT CHANGED IN WINDOWS MAIL, someone interrupted the process. You really need a part II of this one, Robert. |
cellis wrote:
is there a way to use aliasing somehow to get \mail\ to be located over on D:?
good point, yes i see in OE and O how to move the data store location. the problem with this, at least as i understand it, is there are additional security features applied to \documents and settings\ based locations which means when i move the location of the O/OE file store i will loose these security features.
what i want is all the security features inherent in \documents and settings\ yet i want to relocate that tree for the user's data onto some drive letter other than C: given when windows goes bad the C: drive mostly will have to be wiped and remade. then
i want the ability to knit back together that user's \documents and settings\ data tree into their "new" account on the machine.
lets make it easier to get the user back to their data after windows goes bad and the C: drive has to be rebuilt.
thanks,
cellis
I am not an MVP but quite active in the german dotnet-newsgroups. I am one of the people mentioned in the video who "lives" in OE.
There are some things in OE that have to be fixed but were not mentioned in the video or throughout the discussion here:
Please make sure that copy/paste from Visual Studio to Microsoft Mail (MM) won't break the text-only-format of MM. In OE you have always to reformat your code. In total I have spent days or weeks reformatting my code for the newsgroups. Doing the workaround by
pasting the code to Word and then to OE doesn't really solve the problem.
Please make also sure that we don't need something like OE-Quotefix in the future.
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
Microsoft Mail should quote in the correct way by default - at least for the newsgroups.
We have discussed the video in the german csharp-newsgroup. Feedback on the gold/silver/bronze-status-thing and the possibility to rate posts is generally good. We wondered if it would be possible to add a "sticky post" with a link to a FAQ-list for newbies
so that we don't have to answer the same things again and again and can concentrate on the nitty-gritty. We also wondered if it would be possible to do a search in a newsgroup-archive like
http://groups.google.com/
One possibility would be to integrate Google-Groups - even better would be a newsgroups-archive done by Microsoft at least for their own groups.
A lot of MVPs and regulars - many of them working very hard every day for free to support the users of Microsoft-products - would be glad to see that Microsoft would build at least a newsgroup-archive-search for their own news-server because Google-Groups simply
don't work after they have been relaunched.
Cheers
Arne Janning
mscott wrote:
l0ckergn0me wrote: Don't have more than one person in the room at once again. I have no idea what the quiet guy in the corner (with the sunglasses hanging off his collar) was doing there - other than throwing the conversation off track. Just when we were gonna look at more of WHAT CHANGED IN WINDOWS MAIL, someone interrupted the process.
You really need a part II of this one, Robert.
Agreed. The 'quiet guy' really made this video a chore to watch. The questions seemed forced and did not bring anything to demo, except a longer download.
I also hope that you can have a cordless mic for at least the main demo'er. You will still get the adhoc production feel, its just that we can hear the content better without having closeups.
Other than those gripes, good job Robert.
ownatron wrote:
l0ckergn0me wrote: Don't have more than one person in the room at once again. I have no idea what the quiet guy in the corner (with the sunglasses hanging off his collar) was doing there - other than throwing the conversation off track. Just when we were gonna look at more of WHAT CHANGED IN WINDOWS MAIL, someone interrupted the process.
You really need a part II of this one, Robert.
This is the Technical Evangelist (TE) sitting in the corner that you didn't like.
I was at the interview because before I became a TE I was a developer on the team that develops Windows Mail (and this was only a couple of months ago). My focus as a TE is the Windows Vista platform API's and the questions I asked generally revolved around how Windows Mail used the platform API's. Soon many developers will be using these new API's (some are already) and I thought that they may be interested in how a large product like Windows Mail used the new API's in Vista.
I am disappointed that you felt that I led the discussion off track, but please try to keep in mind that many niners visit this site to see how a product implements features and what API's it uses. I did not intend to use Channel9 as a showcase for new products as Microsoft has other venues for that. I wanted niners to see how the new technology is implemented and the people & process that goes into making our new technology.
In the end I want Channel9 content to be accessible to all niners and will keep your criticism in mind for any future content I am part of.
Dear Windows Mail team,
I have a suggestion for Windows Mail. It's importance is not very high though, but I thought it was nice to share with you.
In some situations, I have to attach to a message a file which I will never use after that. The file may be deleted then.
Currently I have to do this myself, but perhaps Windows Mail can do this for me when I can specify this in the Open File dialog.
This will become handy in a lot of situations, and also applies to Outlook and IE when I send attachments.
Hope this helps.
Keep up the good work.
Kind regards,
David van Leerdam
Applause for going back to mail content storage in standard RFC compliant .eml files. Nice to hear also about WAB XMLization and Account Storage out off the Registry. Understanding the need for transactional JET engine DB for performance and/or presentation
uniformity.
Still some sharing related questions bother me for which I did not find answers in the forum:
Would be glad to hear about those issues.
When outlook express was used, I liked to go into the dbx files from time to time and delete/clear the junk out of my inbox, outbox, sent, and deleted folders to ensure my system stayed healthy.
I have found on Windows Mail that searching for the hidden files are not as easy as they were for outlook express. Normally, I search for *.dbx and included the hidden files/folders.
I tried to do a search for *.eml in windows mail and my search came up with nothing the first time. Then, I searched for .eml the 2nd time and got nothing again but noticed in the name portion of the search frame that the search was searching for name:.eml which was not correct. So, I searched for .eml again and although I found the hidden files of Windows Mail, I was not happy that all the files were shown all bunched up instead of in their perspective folders. Why would Microsoft make this so different?
I do like the junk mail option...it performs rather well. But I don't like the fact that I can no longer view my contacts down the left lower side of the windows mail client like I did previously in outlook express. I've tried to get them to show up but according to Microsoft, they'll remain hidden until needed. What moron thought of this, I wonder?