What's new for Desktop Developers in Visual Studio 2017

Play What's new for Desktop Developers in Visual Studio 2017

The Discussion

  • User profile image

    wonderful features, thank you Microsoft.  Nice job on the video too.



  • User profile image

    Does Visual Studio 2017 support CodeContracts?

  • User profile image

    Oh wow, Microsoft have finally added features that ReSharper has given us for years. Come on Microsoft, if the most exciting things you can show us are Ctrl-T to go to a file/type/whatever, or the ability to rename a namespace in a XAML file, then it's hardly big news.

  • User profile image

    Editing XAML while the app is still running is crazy-cool!

  • User profile image

    Very good.

  • User profile image

    Spend 10 minutes to provide a 10 to 20 point bullet list of new features. I can scan it in under 1 minute instead of a 10+ minute video.

  • User profile image

    WPF sucks and it's dead. Terrible technology. Pity me that I have spent time on this crap.

  • User profile image

    @John: I agree John.

    WPF is a good idea in theory, but the implementation of it is horrifying! Using XML (yes, XML, adding an A and making it XAML doesn't change what it is) to create UX elements is terribly verbose, complex, and just a mess to deal with.

    The edit and continue feature proves, to me, that this is true. People wanted that feature because it's a nightmare to look through all of that shi...mess!

    I know WinForms is ancient, but at least with WinForms you could find what you wanted or needed in code without being in tag hell.

    Why create 2 languages for a single app? If your app is C#, it should be C#, not C# and XAML!

  • User profile image

    @watchout4zi​ppers, Why create 2 languages for a single app? If your app is HTML, it should be HTML, not HTML and JavaScript!

  • User profile image

    Why create 2 languages for a single app? If your app is Java, it should be Java, and not Java and FXML.

  • User profile image

    WPF is not dead!

    C# and XAML are working together very well.
    It's a bit hard to learn XAML at first especially if you want to use the MVVM pattern but after that you will not want to go back to WinForms.

    I'm happy to see Microsoft is not giving up on this technology and not letting down the huge community of Windows desktop developers.

  • User profile image

    @watchout4zi​ppers: "WPF is a good idea in theory, but the implementation of it is horrifying! Using XML (yes, XML, adding an A and making it XAML doesn't change what it is) to create UX elements is terribly verbose, complex, and just a mess to deal with."

    Couldn't agree more!

  • User profile image

    WPF and XAML are fine. It's easy to attack things you don't understand. If you bothered to actually learn it, you'd change your tune, but I suspect you lack the ability to properly learn much of anything.

  • User profile image

    I agree with John 100%

    After switching over to Mobile Development and working on Xcode's amazing UI designer - XAML feels like a pre-historic technology.

    @GYS - I've been developing in WPF for the past 5 years. There are only three good things about it -data-binding, mvvm and DirectX rendering, but when it comes to dealing with XAML, especially UI design, it's probably the worst nightmare ever (Blend doesn't even have documentation, or official tutorials because even MS doesn't care anymore).

    While Apple and Google keep innovating and pushing the envelop, what do we (.net developers) get? A Win8.1 SDK that ended up being a complete failure then a UWP that nobody cares about. Now, all the effort goes to .NET-Core which again, nobody even know what that is. Even in the mobile development arena, they needed to buy Xamarin to be competitive (which by the way, I was very happy about).

    I know it sounds like an epic rant but I think MS need to seriously wake up and give us a worthy technology that blends nicely with Windows 10 and Visual Studio 2017. Enough with this old grandpa WPF and WinForms.

  • User profile image

    I agree with Rob and John.   Take a look at Qt's QML, http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qmlapplications.html.  It is so easy to create cross-platform, i.e. true cross-platform, applications using this technology.  The declarative markup is QML, a hybrid of java script. You can create an entire application in java script, but if you want performance, write the non-ui code in C++. 

  • User profile image

    c# is quote awesome, for me verbosity WPF & XAML is awful for teh desktop.. for web ok we get that...
    . winforms killed off ok it was old... it had some inherited short comings from its legacy.. but WPF... imagein writing a low latency app... ummmm.. ok so use c# win forms or VC++ libraries...

    C# rant - personally not having the ability to use multiple inheritance sucks for me and yes i know the reasons why we dont have it and wont get it - and they are easily resolved with thoughtful programming... or compiler conditions. it sucks anwyay if you used this successfully in your past you will understand why its awesome but also why its a nightmare in the wrong hands! so therefore we are stuck with single inheritance as the dev world cannot do mindful coding in teams and produce spaghetti, so single inheritance prevents disasters when working with amateurs... but means i have to write heaps of verbose stuff now... ok rant over.

    rant 2
    God only knows why we didnt have a SQL syntax for memory tables instead of linq lamda...
    select * from object1 order by

    rant 3 - yes i really hate WPF and XAML and will be retiring from development in the next 3 years as its dead.. to me

    unless something comes around that is AWESOME! --- UWA? some mobile tech..
    a new generation of Win/Mobile/Forms?

    WPF OH GOD NO! not for me sorry Bill

    actually i can continue with ASp.net atleast and RAzor that still cool

  • User profile image
    Juan Garcia

    I will stick with Windows Forms thanks.

  • User profile image


  • User profile image

    Thanks to MS for this features. XAML and C# do things verry well, and now it can be easier to develop with edit and continue. I have good exp. for web and desktop technologies, but WPF is better way to write complex business apps. Qt and etc. envy WPF. And of cource commercial components prove my words. I hope MS invest for more complex controls in standard toolbox too.

  • User profile image

    It took years, but I think I finally got the hang of WPF. I would rather get a root canal without Novocaine than go back to Winforms.

  • User profile image

    @Steven - I couldn't agree more. I'm actually surprised at the level of ire and consternation directed at WPF. I think WPF is AWESOME! When it comes to building local desktop applications, I prefer it to any other alternative. XAML may appear verbose, but it's surprisingly slim when you consider all of the equivalent code you'd have to write in the codebehind to achieve the same outcome. Having a hard time finding which element to edit? That's simply a matter of getting used to VS and using the design editor. I click the element in question, the XAML is navigated to and highlighted. And while I think others have made the point well, the argument that there are "two languages" for one application is laughable. Having the logic and functionality abstracted from the presentation and styling is GREAT! It allows designers to implement frontend concepts and engineers to program and optimize backend performance.

    I see these complaints and criticisms and I feel like I'm the one taking crazy pills. How can so many people actually prefer WinForms to WPF? Often, I've found the answer to be "comfort and familiarity". They're comfortable with the gross nightmare that is WinForms, so they don't give WPF the time it deserves. But once you get the hang of WPF, it's extremely hard to justify using anything else.

    If MS creates a new GUI tech (that isn't simply HTML and JS that's consumed by a render engine), I'll honestly give it a shot. But for now, WPF reigns supreme in my book when it comes to desktop GUI creation.

  • User profile image

    I love WPF, been using it for more than 10 years. But MSFT has abandoned it, no new controls etc. They've fractured the environment with UWP and are focusing there. C'mon MSFT get your tools all in one basket and stop the non-sense. Even Silverlight was it's own thing.

    Maybe we can abandon WPF with Electron and Embedded Chrome browser using NODE. That way, we are fully Javascript or Typescript oriented and can kiss our favorite antiquated desktop platform goodbye. Go Node!

  • User profile image

    Hmm, XAML haters, yet "mobile developers"? aka "Android XML".

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
    <LinearLayout xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android"
                  android:orientation="vertical" >
        <TextView android:id="@+id/text"
                  android:text="Hello, I am a TextView" />
        <Button android:id="@+id/button"
                android:text="Hello, I am a Button" />

  • User profile image

    No doubt WPF is best UI technology till date for desktop apps, but it has a steep learning curve. All that hard learning effort has left with very less value due to unfortunate disinterest from MS to develop WPF with time. This made developers all over globe feel cheated. MS might have its own future plan but making their own technology obsolete in an unethical manner is hard to digest. At least MS should make WPF an open source project if they do not want to maintain it, for betterment of technology and community. 

  • User profile image

    It took me a while to learn WPF, but now that I got the hang of it, I wouldn't go back to WinForms no matter what. In WPF, I can wrap a video over a 3D cube and watch it play while I spin the cube in its 3 axis, waiting for my data to be saved on my SQL Data Server. Of course, if somebody doesn't know how to do things like that, it is understandable, yet not forgivable, that he or she feels like downvoting WPF.

  • User profile image

    Xaml is a nightmare. We are back 20 years !!!
    Try with any database application.

    REMEMBER : people use also computer, not only mobile.

  • User profile image
    david copperfield

    it looks like someone put a whole 2 seconds worth of thought into setting the default for screen timeout to yes 60 seconds. wait it gets better. the only way to change it is to use regedit. Yes lets turn amateurs loose in a complicated system killing application where careful negotiation of ten important steps or changes will fix or mangle their systems.


    how TRUMPonian of you! Just have those smart guys sign their work in font size 83. Lest, we forget the self centeredness they exhibit.

  • User profile image

    * you and your live share

  • User profile image
    Where os the code?

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