Gilad Bracha: Dart - A Well Structured Web Programming Language

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Dart is a new programming language being developed at Google, designed to support web programming.   Dart is a purely object-oriented,  class-based single inheritance optionally typed language with actor based concurrency. The design of Dart is subject to two challenging constraints: efficient compilation to JavaScript and instant familiarity to mainstream programmers. Dart may be deployed on both client and server, either via compilation to JavaScript or on its own VM. 

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    The Discussion

    • User profile image
      Don

      Why isn't this video up yet??

    • User profile image
      Luna

      @Don: Because Channel9 is not using Dart for its website!

    • User profile image
      KMx

      I can see the pattern: no video for Google-related talks.

    • User profile image
      Charles

      @KMx: Wrong. This video will go live, as will all of the ones listed here.... Please be patient.

      C

    • User profile image
      HLe

      Agreed with Charles. Even the video about Roslyn project is not posted yet at this time.

    • User profile image
      Don

      It'd be cool if we could just get an update on what is actually holding this up...

    • User profile image
      Charles

      @Don: I'm as eager as you are (and so is Gilad, for that matter!). That said, we are having serious technical difficulties rendering the file from it's recorded state... There is a possibility we will not be able to salvage this great talk. There's also the possibility we will be able to.

      Our apologies. This is a talk we don't want to lose to the digital neverland…

      C

    • User profile image
      Charles

      Superhero G (aka Golnaz) just told me that's she done some magic to salvage this great talk!!

      Thank you, G!! You rock.
      C

    • User profile image
      Don

      Thanks Charles. Looking forward to seeing the video. Heck I'd be happy with just audio if that fails.

    • User profile image
      Hakime

      Several remarks here:

      - Trying to justify Dart over JavaScript by using the comparison to assembler and fortran is just meaningless, it does not make any sense whatsoever. Javascript is a web programing language, that what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

      - Trying to make anyone believe that we can just forget the platforms native programing environment and use Dart instead is just utopia. A web programing language is limited to what it is designed for, i.e., writing web apps. There is no way that Dart can ever, ever, replace the platform native language and associated Frameworks. Dart can't replace in any meaningful way the power and richness of the native environments, particularly when someone is used to environments like Cocoa/iOS/OS X. And trying to make believe that you can run large and complex apps in a web browser is just non sense, I can't imagine myself running my high performance finite element application in a browser.

      - Eclipse based IDE? Oh boy...

      - So we've got to choose between a Dart to javascript converter which tries to give at best javascript like performance or run Dart on a VM. Wait, did I miss something? Isn't it that one of the goal of Dart is performance? A VM? Give me a break.......

    • User profile image
      opinali

      @Hakime: On the competition with native apps, Dart's plan is making progress (should be significantly more efficient than JS at least with the dedicated Dart VM). But there are other pieces and options to complete this puzzle. The underlying web platform is growing, with new extensions appearing every other week to provide access to new functionality from the GPU to cameras to game controllers to storage etc. Finally, Google's [P]NaCL will enable the full performance of native languages for your finite element analysis, although feature-wise it will be still constrained (access to the same external APIs that JS can use), but this actually converges with the strong trend to put even native applications inside tighter sandboxes with "safer" native APIs, from Android and iOS to Metro/WinRT. A few more years down the road, I think browser apps will be on equal footing at least with sandboxed / AppStore-compatible applications. The browser won't be able to deliver only low-level stuff like a device driver, a machine-level debugger or a virus scanner, but that will be 1% of the market.

    • User profile image
      Luna

      @Hakime: "A web programing language is limited to what it is designed for, i.e., writing web apps. There is no way that Dart can ever, ever, replace the platform native language and associated Frameworks"

      So it is. Ever thought about that in a few years Desktop apps will be replaced by them? And its me, who always tried to avoid web apps and scripting languages in particular, whenever possible. So I am looking forward to everything that makes writing web apps a joy and not a spin through hell as it is now.

      Of course server will probably never be written in a web programming language but enduser PCs will be just that in the foreseeable future.

    • User profile image
      exoteric

      Watching....

      It's clear from the beginning that Gilad is a great speaker with a great sense of humor Smiley

      Love it so far...

    • User profile image
      pix

      At 27:20, about the typical situation in a mandatory type system: "Obviously, if you are going to type-check your execution [...], the type system is dependent on what kind of language you have and how you execute".

      What does Gilad exactly mean here? Can someone clarify?

    • User profile image
      Charles

      Here's the Wat link Gilad references near the beginning of this talk: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat

      C

    • User profile image
      Dmitry

      This guy looks too self-confident for such a boring language like Dark.

    • User profile image
      gunston

      @Luna:Re web languages on the server... really?! Check out Node.js.

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