Developer Keynote Updates

Play Developer Keynote Updates

Description

Brian Harry and Brian Keller catch up on some of the developer tools announcements made at TechEd North America. Brian and Brian also presented a demo-packed foundational session which goes deeper into these announcements with product demos of Visual Studio 2013 and Team Foundation Server 2013.

Day:

1

Session Type:

Channel 9 Live

Code:

C9-03

Room:

Hall CDEF

Embed

Download

Download this episode

The Discussion

  • User profile image
    tomkirbygre​en

    It's great to hear about the massive uptake of Visual Studio 2012 to date, it's a very good product and a warmly welcomed advance over Visual Studio 2010 but given that it had such a massive uptake, and given the messaging at the last BUILD conference from Herb Sutter et al it is a crying shame that the November 2012 Preview of the Visual C++ 'Milan' update is not in Visual Studio 2012 Update 3 but instead is going into Visual Studio 2013. VS2012.3 isn't even RTM yet, some ~7 months after the 'Milan' preview.

    Visual Studio 2012 should be about C++ 11 and Visual Studio 2013 should be looking forward to C++ 14 (bits of which you could include today in VS2013 - much as you did with lambda support pre '11).

    On the C++ language and Standard Library front I'm sad to say MS is currently being absolutely spanked by the likes of GCC and Clang. Although to be fair the stuff you did in VS2012 around auto vectorization etc rocked.

    Brian mentioned some of this in passing here:

    http://tomkirbygreen.com/2013/06/07/no-more-c-11-updates-for-visual-studio-2012/

    I would urge Microsoft to reconsider finishing the job with C++ 11 in VS2012. You folks kindly u-turned on Windows XP support, please consider likewise with this.

    To pick a use case at random, Windows Store Apps. You badly need a lot more folks developing on iOS and Android to port more of their apps to the Windows Store, modern C++ is used extensively for its cross platform strengths - but we're forced to dumb down our C++ when coming to WinRT. Also on the subject of Windows Store Apps, entertainment (inc. of course games) is the biggest sector in that space and again, C++ rules here.

    Visual C++ is a great product, it has a wonderful IDE and debugger (personally I hugely prefer said to their XCode equivalents) but when it comes to supporting the core language and Standard Library you folks have much still to do (and hopefully retro fit).

  • User profile image
    Zahir Tezcan

    Regarding their ignorance on C++ features in every VS update, my VS.next mascot suggestion: http://tinyurl.com/kuszlya

  • User profile image
    EricBattalio

    Tom, have you had a chance to see Herb's talk on the Future of C++? https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/2-306

  • User profile image
    tomkirbygre​en

    @EricBattalio: Hi Eric, yes Herb's talk is excellent, I've watched it a couple of times now just to make sure I really grok the roadmap. It's cleared up all my Standard conformance questions, and while the 'out of order' delivery schedule (some bits of C++ 14 before other, more 'esoteric', bits of C++ 11) was initially surprising but now makes oodles of sense.

    The fact that MS is committed to full conformance to C++ 11 and C++ 14, including finishing those bits of C++ 98 conformance that are currently missing, is hugely positive and extremely encouraging.

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.