What's new for WPF Developers

Play What's new for WPF Developers

The Discussion

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    repeated information on whats new in everything else but WPF...

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    @krishnabhargav: Sorry I couldn't share more information that you wanted to hear.

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    Lyalin, could you please write down the URL for the post that you mention during the presentation?

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    we need to share XAML between Modern Apps and WPF

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    Hi Lyalin, thanks for the WPF presentation - it was great! It opened up a world of possibilities! Please can you provide a link to the example code for the WPF Azure web services demo, the SignalR demo and the per monitor DPI aware code? Also have you any IPC or Active Directory example code? Can SIMD be used for faster vector drawing? For anyone interested in example code, there is a full MVVM example in PRISM 5 on NuGet. Also it is possible to use touch in WPF without commercial frameworks - all the main touch events are supported.

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    @onlyicemac:Sorry in the delay to get the blog post out, for now please see my slide deck notes for all the links.

    You can find my PowerPoint herehttps://aka.ms/F13di8. (I'm working to get the deck added to this video and getting the blog post out this week)

    Thanks for watching!

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    There's Bunch of exciting vNext content from all teams. Except WPF

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    Sorry, this is quite a disappointing presentation. The only WPF-related content were the XAML editor changes which were nice and the WPF per-window DPI changes. The rest was general VS discussion of things like edit and continue, debugger, managed memory analyzer, NuGet, another Azure sales pitch. Loopback with WinStore app? we're choosing WPF for a reason -- our customers have told us they do NOT want WinStore apps.

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    To be helpful, topics I would have liked to have seen addressed:

    * Editor/Designer updates (check)

    * WPF performance improvements?

    * WPF airspace issues -- you know about those, right? Any hope we'll be able to get a visual brush with the WebBrowser in it one day?

    * Control improvements.  Any new controls on the horizon? Bug fixes?

    * Better OS shell integration on the horizon? Single-instance app support?

    * What the prospect of updating D3DImage to work with DX10 or 11?

    * Access to Milcore coming for perf?

    * Demo a cool styling example - where's Dr. WPF?

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    I have to agree with schroedl, there is not much about WPF in this video. I was so excited when seeing there was a session about it, and became so disappointed after watching this video.

    The main concern to me is performance. It's very hard to tell the clients that no, I can't implement that smooth animation on their 1500€ brand new shiny PC without it being choppy, when they've been seeing the same one on their phone for years...

    I'm optimizing visual trees and time spent on the main thread as much as possible, but you can't do miracles. And yet, I still think the WPF concept is the best thing that happened in the UI world those last years. It's really painful to switch to another UI framework. Sure, there is the WinRT XAML stack, but that is Windows 8 only... I'm currently watching NoesisGUI closely!

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    Horst Melch

    Hello? Where is the WPF news?

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    Dmitry, thanks for the presentation.  I don't understand people being critical of the messenger about lack of new information if no such information exists.

    My thought: it seems performance has been one thing holding back general satisfaction in WPF for years. It also seems Microsoft has really grasped the power of open source lately: So how about breathing in new life into WPF by open sourcing it, and putting in some extension point that lets the community create alternative optimized implementations?  It could get people excited about XAML/WPF-based UIs again on multiple platforms, and drive developers to create more apps for Windows desktop and Windows Store and Phone apps.  (And do the same with Silverlight -- the last I remember, there were patent issues and Moonlight could only be used in web apps.  If I've got that right, what a shame?)   I'm starting to wonder if I should abandon WPF for a while, maybe forever, to prefer HTML based GUIs by default instead (I'm actually now getting up to speed on those technologies and they're cool but WPF+C# is still cooler :( ), but that would be a shame if there were no good reasons for yesteryear's constraints on today's WPF/silverlight/moonlight.

    I'm watching NoesisGUI too, especially as an option for Unity3D, and I'm glad Microsoft bought up UnityVS.  

    My dream: WPF and/or XAML style GUI on Unity3D (and Xamarin) everywhere. 2 Problems. Problem 1) Noesis is proprietary, has a mean licensing system: only licensed per project (except for Unity developers), and I think lacks some C# integration (maybe resolved now or soon).  Problem 2) Unity3D has a depressingly ancient version of mono (2.6.5) that is full of headache bugs/limitations, especially when trying to port .NET code to an AOT platform like iOS -- Xamarin has improved things in mono 3.  It sounds like they're creating their own MSIL to C++ converter for WebGL -- (maybe a somewhat unnecessary rabbit trail now that MS has invested so much in native compilation?), but I think Microsoft and/or Miguel needs to give them a kick in the pants and say "enough already! help us help you."

    Anyway, it feels to me and I'm sure the vast majority that WPF/Silverlight has been dying and stagnating in mindshare for a while (despite the few cool things in this presentation that help us out -- those are a tiny bit encouraging) and I hope Microsoft realizes they might be able to give it a second life by shaking things up a bit, and that it could be in their best interest to do so.

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    Nice try on the open source pitch :)
    Ms will make sure wpf won't come back to life as it won't line up well with the cloud initiative. So to sum it up, mouse xaml is dead, only finger xaml now.

    The partnership with xamarim us interesting, think ms want to make Miguel does not do anything out of line.

    Yes, ms is forcing the transition and hoping one day, no more people will ever mention the phrase wpf. Look at the toolset/framework coming out nowadays, it's all cloud oriented. The thing is people are not really buying this universal app idea (aka box ui). I think people have a point. Look at the demo app, they are either restaurant menu or shopping app that looks much like the shopping channel TV except the lady talking in the background begging u to buy. I'm sure that does not fit well with the enterprise app. Then ms will say go to the Web, we have azure, host all ur stuff there, that's the ms plan for enterprise.

    It seems like the choices are clear. Either stay with what you have and don't expect ms to make it better (vb6 is another story with its own history) or move on, people switch to objective c or android but maybe the market won't be as big but at least u known where u r heading.

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    Thank you for everyone's feedback, I am certainly reading the comments here and making sure the right folks internally get them.

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    I appreciate that at least there was a WPF session.

    I suppose that is better than I expected.  Nearly everything out of Microsoft has XAML = Windows 8 RT or Windows Phone development.

    Still, I was disappointed that there was nothing new.

    I have to admit that I don't get it.  Microsoft is a HUGE company.  They really can't afford to put 20 people on WPF and just keep updating it with fixes and features? 

    WPF is the current way to develop .net for the desktop.  Why is it so lacking in resources?

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    Have to agree with the others WTF is Microsofts problem with WPF? WPF is awesome even with the flaws and lack of MS support. I too find it strange the MS has the money to run more bad TV adds for Surface and Azure than all other Software companies combined yet no resources for the one Tech that's actually better than the competition. AWS owns the cloud for large scale and lets face it RT and phone are all but dead and buried, its as if the stories about internal cross division sabotage /in fighting are true,I cant see using some inferior to WPF just because some the current powers the seem to dislike managed code. Ive been able to work around almost all of the minor problems that WPF has but have been reluctant to create my own immediate graphic mode control as I was sure MS would provide something for such an obvious issue that any retained mode graphic system will experience. Its seems like there are too few left at MS who have any understanding of how proper WPF apps are even constructed and I have personally given up on getting anything useful from the current batch of management, but that's OK ,WPF is making gains in spite of MS, they cant afford to do what they did to silverlight because it will piss off all their biggest and best customers. there are down more jobs requiring WPF than ever, and the fact is almost no one is switching to the metro/RT/store/modern/Win8 debacle, when Xamarin is the only exciting thing at BUILD you'd think they would get the message.

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    Despite the fact that WPF (like Silverlight) may appear to impede the monetization strategies associated with Azure and the Windows Store (WinRT), we're still a very, very long way from making the Desktop irrelevant.

    WPF's version of XAML is still the most productive and powerful, and behind that we have the rest of .Net/OS.

    Either let WinRT out of its sandbox, or move WPF forward with modest tweaks consisting of more native interfaces to improve performance and fixes to remaining bugs.

    We need the Desktop!!

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    New .NET features: aplenty. New WPF features: not detected.

    Can you just admit that you effectively stopped investing in WPF and want enterprise to use garbage that is HTML5?

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    If you suggest that WPF is changing, why isn't there a version increment? There is MVC 6, where is our WPF 6?

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    I'd like to add my voice to those asking for a greater investment in WPF from Microsoft. Ironically, a couple of years ago I would not have said that. I was more focused on the web and mobile spaces, and was (and still am) excited by all the things happening with Azure, WP8, WinRT, etc.

    However, I've come to see and appreciate the importance of WPF in some highly complex, mission critical applications that I've had the chance to work on. The first was a set of modern, real-time SCADA applications for a client in the energy industry. And then recently I started a new job with a medical device company, using WPF as the user interface to drive a high tech medical imaging and radiotherapy treatment system.

    In both cases, despite it's issues, WPF was the best and only real option for building these systems on Windows. As others have said, WPF is a good platform for building these types of desktop applications, but there are so many areas available for improvement (especially around performance) and we would love to see Microsoft invest much more in this platform.

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    Thank you for everyone's feedback, we are listening and I really appreciate everyone's passion for this topic.

    I also want to link the blog post that has all the links from this session that is (finally) available here: What's new for WPF Developers (.NET Conf June 2014)


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    @Dmitry, are you the only one who's maintaining WPF now?

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    Not all apps need to be Win 8/Phone 8 with touch, I've been developing several WPF/XAML desktop apps to scan and process thousand of biometric images data (finger prints and iris). Microsoft, pleaase don't abandon WPF. I'm pretty sure there are many developers out there have developed some sort of WPF/XAML for their coporate apps.

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    @Dmitry, better than nothing, as long time WPF Dev It's been a rough 3-4 years since sinoffski(mispelled on purpose) I just can't understand why MS want's to abandon the best UI tech on the planet in favor! I have taken extremely close look at RT API and it's what it's capable of and It's a giant step backward, calling it modern is a misuse of the word.I can see why team sinoffski felt like it had to stick a knife in WPF back, because given a choice no one in their right mind would pick RT, I understand that they felt like they needed an ARM based solution to compete with iOS and andriod however it came years too late and didn't take in to account moore's law. given the Intel the advances has made, an the fact that 11nm CPU are coming this year, isn't it time for you guy to concede that RT is a mistake and get back to work on WPF and .Net. the myth that WPF can't do Resolution independence and touch is nonsense, I've done it, it's seem like MS doesn't know how to use WPF, the VS team made a mockery of UI since 2010, they could have used WPF styles properly and given people vast array of UX , but instead of the ALL CAPS, MONOCHROME nightmare, has MS driven off everyone with WPF skills in sinoffski purge. and as far as rendering performance, why so few get the fact that WPF is retained mode and that no retained mode system is gonna perform like immediate mode, I have thought of doing it myself, these guys have


    why can't MS?

    Is MS really happy with C# losing market share? now your trying to push C++, have MS lost the site of the advantage of managed code? has no one left at MS experience the frustration of memory leaks in large multi-threaded apps?

    Does MS understand that if WPF DEv' dont get a migration path, we will leave MS Dev Stack?

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    @Dave +1

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    it's a strange and a very bad feeling i have right now .

    we have made a big investment in time/energy ... and money to learn and adopt the best dev platorms for desktop and web in our opinion (SL/WPF). and what we got !

    SL : official Website closed and officially declared dead !(no future updates)

    WPF : official Website closed , and treated like a sh... ., no roadmaps, no communication from MS, and no certitude that future updates to the framework (if even there is future updates) will work with existing hardware and OS .... thanks microsoft !

    when i see other plateforms (javafx for example) actively maintained and supported , i am really mad .

    sorry but i just wanted to express my deep disappointment, we really love to see WPf treated by MS like it deserve .

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