WPF in 4.6 and beyond

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Are you interested in the future and the roadmap for the WPF platform? If so, this session is for you. We will take an in-depth look at our areas of investment and the new features we are working on for .NET 4.6 and future releases of the WPF Platform. We will talk about how WPF platform will evolve in the long term, and the strategies you should start considering to get the best out of future platform improvements. Finally, we will take a look at the new authoring, debugging and diagnostics experiences available for WPF applications in Visual Studio 2015.

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WPF

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    The Discussion

    • User profile image
      rstat1

      10 american cents says it'll just be about all the superfluous fluff they're adding in an attempt to distract you from the fact that they're not doing any actual work.

    • User profile image
      Vic

      >superfluous fluff
      >they're not doing any actual work

      Different people have different feature priorities.
      What "actual work" would you like them to do?

      What kind of applications are you using WPF for?

      Vic

    • User profile image
      issam

      excellent news !!!

    • User profile image
      Paul

      I have to agree with @rstat1 that this talk will distract that no real investment is done in WPF.

      @Vic: I am not interested in new features at the moment. But quality is very important for our WPF desktop applications. However, most MS Connect submits regarding serious WPF bugs and performance issues have just been closed without explanation. Some of them are older than 5 years.

      Please improve the quality of WPF – Bugs, Performance and Memory Leaks!!! Thanks.

    • User profile image
      GuiDesign

      Please improve the Aero2 theme. WPF apps on Win10 or Win8.1 look very much like an Alien and not as a native app. Most controls come still with the Win7 theme and the ones that were adapted to Win8.1 need real improvement.

      More LOVE for UI :-)

    • User profile image
      Viral_Surani

      where's the video???

    • User profile image
      dotMorten

      @Paul:Did you even watch the announcements? They said they were reopening all issues with 10+ votes. Second: Perf is a major quality problem in WPF and this is also being addressed, not to mention bringing WPF up to support today's hardware.

    • User profile image
      KopfSick

      Can't see the video anywhere? All I see is a countdown for day 2.

    • User profile image
      Niner488372

      Where is the video? Are WPF Future plans scrapped already?

    • User profile image
      younky

      Where is the video for this session? I can watch the others while only this one is missing.

    • User profile image
      Landon

      Where's the vid???

    • User profile image
      Olivier

      Can't see any video...

    • User profile image
      aL3891

      The live sessions is over, but the recording is coming, usually it takes 24-48h

    • User profile image
      bgosdin

      Where's the video??? Come on...Help us out here.

    • User profile image
      Kabir

      I too am waiting for it.

    • User profile image
      bonk

      The recorded video was here yesterday. But it is gone now. I deperately want to watch it.

    • User profile image
      Robert

      Maybe this is a message on it's own. WPF has no "beyond"

    • User profile image
      rahul

      Very good to see that DX11 and DX12 interop will be coming to WPF. App-local also looks interesting from the point-of-view of getting faster updates to WPF in the future.

    • User profile image
      PerfectPhase

      Seems to have the video for the .Net Core talk here at the moment.

    • User profile image
      abdelkarim

      It seems the wrong video is posted.

    • User profile image
      Jeff

      This is the wrong video at the moment

    • User profile image
      Peter

      I'm getting the right video.

    • User profile image
      Peter

      Nevermind, I was watching the right video and then when I posted my comment, it refreshed and was the wrong video.

    • User profile image
      LoudKen

      I think the App Local solution is the correct way to go.  With this in mind please keep a living document available on a support site that describes the various versions of the App Local Presentation framework that you may release.

      Thanks for re-energizing WPF!

    • User profile image
      Michael

      Interesting that some people get the right video. I also get the ".Net Core Deep Dive" video.

    • User profile image
      LoudKen

      I also was getting the video until I posted a comment and then I went back to seeing the .NET Core Deep Dive.

    • User profile image
      DevAtMic

      We are investigating this and should have it fixed soon.

    • User profile image
      DevAtMic

      This should be fixed now

    • User profile image
      johnkoerner

      How does patching work with AppLocal?  If there is a security fix in PresentationCore or some other local DLL am I, as an application developer, responsible for shipping the fix with my application?

    • User profile image
      styx31

      The AppLocal solution is really interesting, an excellent way to provide more updates.

      Great work, I will attend for the Q&A session next monday ! 

    • User profile image
      RobRelyea

      Thanks all for the feedback on the news in the video (or telling us about our video issues. Should be all happy now, but I said that yesterday morning..)

      @Paul: Thanks. Yes, we want to accelerate our ability to "improve the quality of WPF - Bugs, Performance, and Memory Leaks". Please keep feedback coming.
      @GuiDesign: Would love to have more details about your Aero2 critique. We're aware of some issues, but it sounds like you have more knowledge of problems in this area.
      @LoudKen: Living document about different releases and what fixes/improvemetns get in to each would be great thing. Agreed.
      @JohnKoerner: WPF-Local is still a work in progress, as we said on the video. Still working through many interesting issues, like patching. That said...being able to patch our assemblies, by us, if a critical security issue was found, is a priority. We are strongly considering using .NET Framework 4.5.1 as the minimum requirement to run WPF-Local on, for this reason, since that release gives us the ability to patch "AppLocal" assemblies via Microsoft Update.

      Remember, tune into our Connect("Live") // Q&A on March 23rd from 11am-noon PST: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Connect-Live/Visual-Studio-WPF-Team-What-we-are-up-to

      Thanks, Rob Relyea, WPF Team, @rrelyea

    • User profile image
      exoteric

      Everything I wanted for WPF but was afraid to hope for. This is great news!

    • User profile image
      poteb

      Turn off the blinking LED! Just so you know for future videos :)

    • User profile image
      compupc1

      WPF via out of band NuGet packages is a great move!  Seeing what it did for ASP.NET or especially EF, I can only see this being a good thing, especially if the investments aren't split between the "in-box" WPF and the NuGet package.

      Although it does seem like WPF may never be truly cross-platform, it does seem like there is a good middle ground.  Even if it remains Windows-only, what are the chances that it could become open source and sit on top of .NET Core?  I ask because I have a solution that includes both ASP.NET MVC apps that I would like to update to ASP.NET 5 on .NET Core, plus WPF apps and Windows Services.  I don't really have a need to run my app on *nix, but the other benefits of .NET Core are huge -- not having to ask each of our customers to install .NET framework updates would simplify so much.

      I know I can use PCLs to share code between .NET Core-based projects and full framework-based projects, but frankly that should be a transient workaround.  Now that WPF has taken the first step of moving to NuGet, getting it and its dependencies included in (or at least, compatible with) .NET Core should be a priority once the current crop of features have been addressed.

    • User profile image
      Alexandre​Mutel

      That's great to see improvements on WPF!

      I would like just to reiterate my concern on Direct3D11/Direct3D12 interop support. The main problem today with DirectX integration is not the lack of interop, but the fact that the composition of a Direct3D surface is inefficient (the double buffering and lock make the Direct3D stalls at the framerate of WPF, plus if the Direct3D part is running slower than the WPF framerate, the whole WPF experience is slowing down). It is thus today impossible to efficiently use Direct3D in a WPF application, and I have abandoned D3DImage in favor of HWND incrustation (so with the restriction of not being able to put overlay XAML content).

      So using Direct3D11/Direct3D12 won't change anything if WPF keeps the same integration design.

      I would prefer WPF embracing DirectComposition (though that would be maybe much more work) that would fix most of our concern with WPF/Direct3D integration.

    • User profile image
      zsims

      Good talk. We author a few large WPF apps (500k+ lines), the biggest thing we're looking for is better MVVM support -- anything on this front? Consistency with the standard controls on this front is lacking.

    • User profile image
      raghavendra​naik

      We are seeing many WPF apps being ported over to the AngularJS + Bootstrap + RestFul API stack. Today there are very little justifications to the management to NOT do the port especially with memory leaks, less than effective virtualization and general performance issues.

      Also, we would like to see an equivalent of a layout manager similar to bootstrap on the web which would react to the window size.

      Are these on your road map?

    • User profile image
      issam

      I actually enjoyed the presentation .

      the WPF app local and the defered lazy loading features sound great !
      the upcoming developpement orientation of WPF sound great too .


      hopefully we will see more and more love to WPF From it's developpers :)

    • User profile image
      aL_

      Great news! really hope we can see more rapid development of wpf now and supporting some of the new stuff in windows like directUI and DX12!

    • User profile image
      Prakash

      Please provide templates that are in parity to the UX experience for win phone, win RT, etc.

      Would like to create consistent theming and styling in the look and feel, similar to what Silverlight did in the past.

    • User profile image
      ericgholland

      How about getting rid of the ruthless thread affinity for all things UI. We live in an age were we are supposed to implement things using tasks and async, but WPF itself forces everything back onto one thread. Not only does it impact performance, it causes lots of code complexity and noise with marshalling things back to the UI thread. If app developers are supposed to do tasks/async, why not the framework?

    • User profile image
      Residentx

      Why were you guys so harsh on them? This was informative. This was better than the previous video.  

    • User profile image
      eersonmez

      I got to the point in the video where they present how they fixed the ComboBox control so that its borders are the same thickness on all sides. Wow! If this scale of work was significant enough for you that you had to put it in this video, then that really lowers my expectations on the future of WPF.

    • User profile image
      eersonmez

      I do like the new debugging tools (bye bye Snoop).

    • User profile image
      gawicks

      Any improvements to XAML itself? I'd very much like to see data binding debugging brought over from Silverlight to WPF.

      Oh btw good job on the live visual tree. That looks really promising.

    • User profile image
      Niner488372

      How can we manage x86 and x64 versions or WPF assemblies in case of AppLocal?

    • User profile image
      Niner488372

      Live Visual Tree is great. Will be better if LVT window can be detached out from VS and see the visual tree changing in  LVT window while actually interacting with WPF control.

      One of the useful thing that snoop provides is to give the feedback on the currently focused control. This wont be possible with LVT because as soon as I'll switch the window, focus will change.

    • User profile image
      Doctor Who

      @Niner488372: I've used Snoop too and love it. Very handy to figuring out how controls are being used as you run the app.

    • User profile image
      qakmak

      So many great commit . I think WPF developers need to listen very carefully, for me I will suggess like 3d performance and only has one UI thread problem.

    • User profile image
      Dehnashi

      Hello
      I wonder whether it is worth your time and energy spent programmers WPF or not
      Or that WPF will retire as WINDOWS FORMS.

    • User profile image
      Doctor Who

      @Dehnashi:At this point in time I think that Microsoft is still committed to enhancing WPF. WPF is, from what I can see, the way to go for desktop development. And that's important to the enterprise. When Windows Store apps overtake WPF than I'd say WPF's day has gone, but until then I think Microsoft will continue to enhance WPF.

      Of course this is all my opinion; I've no inside knowledge of anything that Microsoft is or isn't doing.

    • User profile image
      RedBaaron

      Please fix the issue with the datagrid sorting only once and collectionviewsource. In general, the stock WPF datagrid is a PIA to deal with, so any enhancements are welcomed. That quality and stability of that control is more important to insurance & finance than all of the other flashier components.

      And i'm with Doctor who. Desktop LOB apps are still vital to a huge segment of users in big businesses and that isn't going to change. Despite 15 years of us hearing how the desktop app would be going the way of the dodo , it hasn't happened, and I've seen no indication that web alternatives are as responsive or hassle-free as the old desktop platforms. If anything, I would say the abundance of web apps has more to do with IT management imposing their preferences, and a certain laziness related to deployment. No, we need desktop apps. We are invested in C# and .NET. So that means we need WPF alive and actively enhanced.

      And as for Universal App/Metro , most of the business world is still a long way off from Windows 10, and will skip Windows 8 altogether. So that means another 5 years before upgrading to that is even an option, and another 5 before it would be necessary. If/When it does happen, it should be a relatively natural progression with both of them being XAML and C#. It's not like anything in this line of work last much longer than that without something else springing up anyway. But for now (and a good while yet), WPF is our only option, so keep it alive and healthy.

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