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Bush floods New Orleans....

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  • User profile image
    Manip
  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    It's the future. I can sense it... I see:

    Thread.Lock();

    Smiley

    Edit: I would also add that (even though I'm not a Bush fan by any stretch) Bush didn't flood New Orleans. It's a city 2 feet below sea level. The hurricane flooded. it. Sure, it's impact could have been minimized by better funding of the restoring of wetlands, but if it weren't inhabited at all, or in a better place, there would be less damage.

    But the fact remains.. Hundreds of Thousands of people have lost friends, loved ones, homes, family pets, etc. No one deserves that.

  • User profile image
    j0217995

    I cannot believe people on both sides of the aisle that want to politize this tradgey.  From Republicans blamming lack of money to spend to Democrats blaming Bush for not signing the Koyoto Protocol, etc.

    This is something that should transcend politics and allow us to reach out together.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    j0217995 wrote:
    I cannot believe people on both sides of the aisle that want to politize this tradgey.  From Republicans blamming lack of money to spend to Democrats blaming Bush for not signing the Koyoto Protocol, etc.

    This is something that should transcend politics and allow us to reach out together.


    I think I understand it completely. Politicians looks like they have to do *something*. I haven't heard the Kyoto prototcol one, (share the link, if you will, please), but that doesn't make much sense: Kyoto would have made any reasonable impact on this hurricane... The money issue has some merit, although not a lot.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Yes because political decisions made by the people with money have nothing to do with anything right....

    Like if a bridge collapsed because some local gov. didn't want to renovate it and someone said "Why the hell didn't you renovate it when you found it it was dangerous?!" it would just be a political argument... Right...?

    Here is a clue for you IT IS ABSOLUTELY something to be questioned. It is no more or less a "political" decision than was the war on Iraq and in both cases people have died.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    MisterDonut wrote:
    It's the future. I can sense it... I see:

    Thread.Lock();



    Edit: I would also add that (even though I'm not a Bush fan by any stretch) Bush didn't flood New Orleans. It's a city 2 feet below sea level. The hurricane flooded. it. Sure, it's impact could have been minimized by better funding of the restoring of wetlands, but if it weren't inhabited at all, or in a better place, there would be less damage.


    8 feet, actually and I understand the dykes protecting the city were under-maintained.

    MisterDonut wrote:

    But the fact remains.. Hundreds of Thousands of people have lost friends, loved ones, homes, family pets, etc. No one deserves that.




    Question: I don't remeber there being this much media activity when it was Mozambique a few years ago, and countless multiples of people died.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    W3bbo -

    Thanks for the update on the Stats of New Orleans. Not sure where I heard the 2 foot level. But i know some of the pumps for getting H2O out of it were decades old.

    As to Mozambique, it is a shame. Most of the US will find something else of interest and ignore things in other countries (especially those that don't directly impact our economy) Africa has half a million people die of TB, but it doesn't make a dent in most people's minds.. I guess they think it's more important to worry about the US economy, gas prices, or what those dirn Democrats/Republicans are up to.

    Quite sad, really.

    Just heard that Bush implying (not saying) that the US doesn't want foreign assistance with New Orleans "Americans will rise to the occasion". Something strikes me about this as being wrong.. But, can't place my finger on it..

  • User profile image
    Manip

    MisterDonut wrote:
    The money issue has some merit, although not a lot.


    It wouldn't have had a lot of impact increasing the height of the barriers that got breached and water flooded into New Orleans? Are you frigging stupid?! Of course it would have made a difference!

    I wonder, if you worked at a company... The managers voted not to install fire extinguishers to save money, then there was a fire, five people died... Would you turn around and say "Well having a fire extinguisher there wouldn't have saved any lives anyway"; because by the sounds of it that is exactly what you ARE saying about the New Orleans thing.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    Manip wrote:
    MisterDonut wrote: The money issue has some merit, although not a lot.


    It wouldn't have had a lot of impact increasing the height of the barriers that got breached and water flooded into New Orleans? Are you frigging stupid?! Of course it would have made a difference!



    First, I'm not stupid. Second, I never heard that part of money for protection of NO, was for raising the levees. I believe it has for modernization of pumps (some of it) and the bulk of it was to restore wetlands surrounding NO, which tends to lessen the impact of a Hurricane (preventing the warm water from feeding the strength of a hurricane).  I haven't heard any people saying that the levees were too small and needed to be raised. I am not a LA native, but I have interest in the area and I do follow some of the news down there. I'd love to see some links to legit news sources if you're aware of groups calling for the raising of the levees.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Here is a link to a cache of popular science.

    http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:OvtudVKFeosJ:www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,1049488,00.html+new+orleans+levees+raise&hl=en

    New Science wrote:
    New Orleans has nearly completed its Hurricane Protection Project, a $740-million plan led by Naomi to ring the city with levees that could shield residents from up to category-3 storm surges. Meanwhile, Winer and others at the Army Corps are considering a new levee system capable of holding back a surge from a category-5 hurricane like Ivan, which threatened the city last year.


    Except Bush cut off their last $250m funding.


    New Orleans Times-Picayune wrote:
    It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.


    -- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004.


    Here is an up-to-date story on it.

  • User profile image
    Svendawg

    Hmmm, blame Bush?.  Seems to me that those responsible for the 9-11 event also should share some blame then.



  • User profile image
    eagle

    The locks, levees and canals of The New Orleans District have been constructed to withstand a force 3 hurricane; they have been overwhelmed by a force 4.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Which is why the Army Core of Engineers wanted to strengthen them! Expressionless

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    Manip wrote:
    Here is a link to a cache of popular science. 



    Thank you. That really was the first I heard about that even being considered. I'm not a civil engineer by trade, but I don't know that if the idea was "considered" in 2004, that anything could have been done to prevent Katrina from doing what it did. Remember, Levees are a "weakest link" item, where it's only as good as the weakest link. I doubt if construction would have been even started yet.

    That all being said, I think it's more important to see what happens *now* and *in the future*. Yeah, I have no doubt that funding cuts went to help balance the federal budget. But, I wonder what will happen now.

  • User profile image
    eagle

    This is a once in a hundred years event.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    One last comment from the article you sent us:

    The category-5 levee idea, though, is still in the early planning stages; it may be decades before the new barriers are completed.

    Levee's are just dropped in. Not the ones which can survive Category 5 storms.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    eagle wrote:
    This is a once in a hundred years event.


    Which is precisely why people will rebuild and be defiant, as opposed to think, "where is a good place to build my house and keep my children safe?".

  • User profile image
    msemack

    Interesting reading (without being political):
    http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=170102295

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