Coffeehouse Thread

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New Audio stack.

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  • User profile image
    birchy

    Any details coming out of the PDC regarding the re-written audio stack?

  • User profile image
    Manip

    I too want info on this.

    Scoble can you tell us when the Larry video will ship? Smiley

  • User profile image
    scobleizer

    Tomorrow.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    scobleizer wrote:
    Tomorrow.
    Too much hype & anticipation. It's just gonna disappoint. Just like Star Wars ep I, II, III.

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    Since there's no NDA on beta 1... The new audio stack drops all hardware acceleration and is as of broken in multiprocessor mode. Internally, it seems to have been restructured, using things called audio transform modules (or something), that'll take care of getting the data prepared for optimal output. Other than that, details are sketchy.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Tom Servo wrote:
    Since there's no NDA on beta 1... The new audio stack drops all hardware acceleration and is as of broken in multiprocessor mode. Internally, it seems to have been restructured, using things called audio transform modules (or something), that'll take care of getting the data prepared for optimal output. Other than that, details are sketchy.
    How's DRM woven into this? Are the days of re-recording a DRM-protected WMA files gone for good?

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Tom Servo wrote:
    No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.
    Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    Minh wrote:
    Tom Servo wrote: No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.
    Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.


    You can playback DRM'ed content using the new stack, that's certainly true Smiley

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    Tom Servo wrote:
    Since there's no NDA on beta 1... The new audio stack drops all hardware acceleration and is as of broken in multiprocessor mode. Internally, it seems to have been restructured, using things called audio transform modules (or something), that'll take care of getting the data prepared for optimal output. Other than that, details are sketchy.


    It shouldn't be broken in any mode, as far as we've heard, if you're hearing bugs, I'd love to hear about them.

    The audio stack is a total, bottom-up rewrite, entirely in user mode.  The DSP that used to be done by sysaudio is now being done with pluggable modules called Audio Processing Objects, or APOs.

    The video tomorrow will have more info than that.

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    "The audio stack is a total, bottom-up rewrite, entirely in user mode. "

    Can drivers live in usermode now?

    p.s. The new textbox is still buggy.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    Minh wrote: Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.


    You can playback DRM'ed content using the new stack, that's certainly true
    But can you RECORD a playing DRM'ed content? Smiley

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Other than security ^shrug^ I don't see the advantage in placing the audio bits in user-mode. In fact it sounds like a way to make the audio sub-system laggy to me.

    Edit: This would also 'fix' fast-user switching where music can continue to play while you switch users.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    Manip wrote:

    Other than security ^shrug^ I don't see the advantage in placing the audio bits in user-mode. In fact it sounds like a way to make the audio sub-system laggy to me.

    Edit: This would also 'fix' fast-user switching where music can continue to play while you switch users.



    Humorously enough, the "stop playing on fast user switching" feature (and yes, we had that as a feature) was left on the cutting room floor.  Losing that feature was it was my biggest regret in Vista.

    And there are a LOT of really good reasons, not the least of which is the ability to remove seven different device drivers.  Don't understimate the impact of that, it's actually huge.

    Moving the audio stack to user mode also enabled a huge amount of flexibility in what we can do with the stack, some of which will come out in the video.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    Cairo wrote:
    "The audio stack is a total, bottom-up rewrite, entirely in user mode. "

    Can drivers live in usermode now?

    p.s. The new textbox is still buggy.



    Not in Vista. 

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    A tantilizing way to phrase your answer. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Karim

    Tom Servo wrote:
    No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.


    http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx

    They are calling "Protected Audio Path" a future initiative.

    There's already "Secure Audio Path" in WMP, but given that half that stuff happens at the kernel level... I'm not sure how relevant it is to PUMA.

  • User profile image
    Deactivated User

    Comment removed at user's request.

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