Coffeehouse Thread

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MVPs

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  • User profile image
    irascian

    I've got to admit I've had very few dealings with MVPs - I see the occasional "MVP" sig on the odd newsgroup but I'm not really aware of the service they provide or the popularity they apparently have that earns them the title.

    But I've become a LOT more aware of them through the blogs that have been posted as a result of the MVP summit. And I have to say the results are not pretty.

    If I read one more blog boasting about how "fantastic" everything they saw at the MVP summit was but that "I can't say any more because it's NDA" (often when it isn't and they're describing the same sessions that anybody at PDC saw) I swear I'll club someone over the head with a copy of the P&P Performance and Scalability Guide. The signal to noise ratio on these blogs is as close to zero as it's possible to get and  these people are supposed to be "valued professionals"???!

    I think I've read three blog postings about "Spang" boasting about how wonderful it is but that they can't say any more about what "it" is because of NDA.

    Excuse me - what exactly is the point of your blog post other than to say "Look at me! Look at me! Nyaa nyaaa nyaa". I fail to see how this in any way promotes Microsoft or its products.

    Quite aside from the fact that if "Spang" or whatever the hell it's called is under NDA you shouldn't even be mentioning it by codename.

    Using blogs as the criteria MVPs come across as a bunch of rather superior "We know secrets you don't" sad fan boys of the worst possible kind. People, frankly, to be avoided at all costs!


    Someone tell me I'm wrong!

  • User profile image
    billh

    And then they have the arrogance to pretty much stick that "MVP" label on every single thing they write, so YOU know they are an MVP and don't YOU forget it (check out StaceyW's posts sometime around here)....but it's true they really don't have a grasp on what they are doing, but rather keep regurgitating other people's thoughts.

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    You know, if I get all the insider info and direct lines to developers like these MVPs get, I'd be able and willing to play Captain Smartass on the Usenet, too. But since public newsgroups are a royal pain in the (I need to watch my language) due the free-for-all nature (no moderation or user identification whatsoever), I surely won't make the effort towards anything like a MVP.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Apparently, Manip has never met an MVP... They tend to be unusually knowledgable and passionate about our technologies. They also tend to be some of our harshest critics, which is a very good thing since they help us make our products better by providing feedback both from themselves and from the community in which they are very active contributors.

    C

  • User profile image
    Manip

    If you want MVP next year all you have to do is scout newsgroups and post replies to easy questions using almost direct quotes from Microsoft Knowledge Base articles..

    That is after all what most MVPs do; if you ever talk to one they come across as mindless zombies and might have well be replaced by bots.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Charles wrote:
    Apparently, Manip has never met an MVP...


    Actually I have. Before I met and talk with a couple I had some respect for the label and assumed they would be "skilled" but now they are no better than Network Admins with a MCSE that think they own the place because of it... Where in actual facts the engineers without said qualification can match or out-perform them most of the time.

    Not to mention MVP is very political, if you network well with people from Microsoft or closely tied, you increase your chances...

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    I agree with Manip. Actually, the last couple of months, all interaction with MVPs on the Usenet consisted mostly reading replies that are pretty much quoted out of a related FAQ. That's really bright.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    irascian wrote:
    I swear I'll club someone over the head with a copy of the P&P Performance and Scalability Guide.

    Use the Smart Client Architecture Guide instead. Amusingly, it is abreviated to SCAG.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Here is a quote from just some random mailing list (direct quote, no edited out text):

    MVP wrote:
    Hi F,

    > Well, there are a lot of Word spelling dictionary add on packages. All of
    > the ones I have played with install a .lex file of there word bank. how are
    > they able to create the lex file? if they can do it, I would assume that it
    > is possible for me to do it too. How are they able the extend Word's
    > spelling dictionary without using the custom dictionaries function in Word?
    >
    Start here.

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;262605

        Cindy Meister

  • User profile image
    irascian

    Tensor wrote:

    Use the Smart Client Architecture Guide instead. Amusingly, it is abreviated to SCAG.


    Ah yes, but does it run it to over 1000 pages the way the Perf and Scalability Guide does - I want something big and heavy! [6]

  • User profile image
    marteaga

    I'm an MVP but don't boast about it other than have it on my blog page.  For those that went to the summit and blogged about it afterwards saying they can't say anything because of NDA then they are just 'show boating' that they are MVPs and my take is probably didn't get much out of the summit other than free food and drinks.

    A lot of MVPs I deal with are some of the smartest people I have meet from all over the world.  We have helped improve the Compact Framework not just by regurgitating things in FAQs but by giving constructive criticism from real world experience that does not come from FAQs.  Some of us have even started open source projects (OpenNETCF.org) to try to fill in some of the gaps from V1 of .NETCF and many things in the open source project have actually made it to V2 of .NETCF.  Sure, we still post in newsgroups to help people out,  but some of the people that need help either don't know where to find the information, are really stuck on a problem or are just too lazy to search to help themselves.  For the people too lazy I usually give them a link for them to go read themselves.  If it's a genuine problem that the user is really stuck on and we know the solution or know where to find the info why not help out?

    I'm sure there are some MVPs who don't have the appropriate knowledge but you have that everywhere.  I have meet MCSDs who don't have a clue about using events and delegates in C# and  I have worked with sales people who don't sell a thing but are still called a 'Senior Sales Consultant'. 

    You get this sort of thing everywhere and not just the MVP program. 

  • User profile image
    irascian

    marteaga wrote:
    I'm an MVP but don't boast about it other than have it on my blog page
    You get this sort of thing everywhere and not just the MVP program. 


    Thanks for popping in to provide some balance.

    Nice blog page by the way!

  • User profile image
    Zeo

    I'm an MVP and I met up with you at PDC. I also don't like it when other MVP claim "NDA" all over the place. Sure I saw roadmaps and foward looking concepts BUT from several of the summits I've been too most of the NDA stuff never ships....its more research based.

    I dunno, being an MVP isn't all that its cracked up to be. I help many of the community members and I really seek to help as many people as I can.

  • User profile image
    irascian

    Zeo wrote:

    I'm an MVP and I met up with you at PDC. I also don't like it when other MVP claim "NDA" all over the place. Sure I saw roadmaps and foward looking concepts BUT from several of the summits I've been too most of the NDA stuff never ships....its more research based.

    I dunno, being an MVP isn't all that its cracked up to be. I help many of the community members and I really seek to help as many people as I can.



    Hi Ian.

    Yeah I nearly mentioned you as a disclaimer to my general dissing of MVPs, but where would be the fun in that? Wink

    Seriously I think you're the only MVP I've ever spoken to in real life. I was just wondering what was more typical - someone like you or someone like those blogging endlessly about NDAs.

    In all honesty I don't care where the information comes from if someone's helping out in the newsgroups - if it comes from an FAQ who cares, if it helps someone? I'm just concerned at how many blogs I've read that have MVP plastered all over them and say nothing other than "Woo hoo. NDA. NDA. NDA." Makes me want to use the comment feature to say "PLEASE get yourself a life you sad f***" (I'm mean like that Wink)

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Paul Thurrot thinks the same thing:
    "Yeah, I'm an MVP (Most Valued Professional, for Windows Server). And I have to say it's a bit of an issue for me. On the one hand, I respect and protect the close relationship I have with the software giant. On the other hand, I'm a bit put off by the imperial and entitled attitude many MVPs have: Some of these people honestly believe they're "better" than others, and I have a problem with that."

  • User profile image
    AdamKinney

    I know a fair amount of MVPs, more actually than I thought, I learned while working the ch9 booth at the MVP summit.  I can tell you that just about every one I know is someone you want to listen to talk, as they are normally full of information and they want to share it.

    +1 for MVPs

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    irascian wrote:
    Tensor wrote:
    Use the Smart Client Architecture Guide instead. Amusingly, it is abreviated to SCAG.


    Ah yes, but does it run it to over 1000 pages the way the Perf and Scalability Guide does - I want something big and heavy!

    Would the New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary suit your needs? It's over 1600 pages and comes in a cardboard box. Smiley

    EDIT: Watch us try to up each other on who owns the thickest book. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    Ian, I fear you may have over generalised on this one.

    I'm sure MVP's are just like any group, they have good and not so good ambassadors.

    As for NDA's, they are painful things. When watching a presentation it's difficult to know what is common knowledge and what isn't if it's all new to you.

    (Anyway, I'm just a fluffy man, perhaps because I'm playing Motorcycle - As the Rush comes at a volume that isn't healthy! Hmmm, fancy any Ferry Corsten anyone? Yep, I LOVE dance music almost as much as my Wife!)

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