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Microsoft shows off new Vista features

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  • User profile image
    Erisan

    Story

    Edit: umph ... actually not fresh "news" anymore.

    Other MS related articles:

    Microsoft Bakes Windows AntiSpyware into Vista
    Microsoft: Africa Doesn't Need Free Software

  • User profile image
    BenZila

    shooby wrote:
    Those 'new' vista features? semi transparent window edges, and search boxes -- B F D

    Why is Microsoft so stagnant -- no new things in quite a while.


    Oh yeah, I remember -- they have killed innovation by making it impossible.


    Whats that you say?  How can that be! Bill says they innovate at Microsoft -- and they do, they innovate your idea into Microsoft products.

    But, ok, I can claim that, and even though theres Real Networks, and about a hundred other lawsuit that illustrate this very point -- I'll take the time to hand hold you through a hypothetial scenario.


    Lets assume you have a new idea in software, and its cool and neat, and will take a lot of effort to develop -- after all its cool and new! Now, lets assume you go to venture capital, and manage to sell the idea. Years later, you've managed to keep it secret, and release the product on to the market, and its looking good, and you sell some.  Lets assume theres a security update, that -- purely by coincidence -- breaks your code!  


    While you're picking up the peices, and hiring people to fix the stuff, Microsoft takes the time to use the tools they don't sell to anyone else to make a spifier (albeit bugger and with more security holes) product, and decide to make your 'new idea' part of the operating system bundle.

    Shucks, darn - well, thats the breaks. Youre now broke, disgruntled, with 2 million lines of code you can't give away. And your venture capital thinks youre a total loser.


    Go ahead, make something else. See my point?


    Thats why I hate fuxing Microsoft -- the killed the thing I love,  this man Gates and his whole company is evil!!


    I love you too!

    xxoo shooby


    U be funnay to teh max!

  • User profile image
    Karim

    shooby wrote:
    But, ok, I can claim that, and even though theres Real Networks, and about a hundred other lawsuit that illustrate this very point -- I'll take the time to hand hold you through a hypothetial scenario.


    Would this be the same Real Networks that swore to the U.S. Senate that evil, evil Microsoft purposely BROKE their wonderful G2 Real Player... when it turned out to be a bug in the Real G2 installer?

    http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/29/real4.idg/

    http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/18010/18010.html

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/1998/7-27g2bug.mspx

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/1998/7-28others.mspx

    No need to hold our hands as you traipse off to Fantasyland!  You go on ahead.

    shooby wrote:

    Lets assume you have a new idea in software, and its cool and neat, and will take a lot of effort to develop -- after all its cool and new!


    Maybe if it's really new you'd bother taking out a software patent?  Then watch and laugh as Microsoft tries to invent their way "around" your patent.

    Or, maybe it's not that new, so it's not patentable?

    Or maybe (horror!) the stuff you claim is new, is not only NOT new, but it infringes someone else's patent?

    http://www.friskit.com/press_release.htm

    shooby wrote:

    While you're picking up the peices, and hiring people to fix the stuff, Microsoft takes the time to use the tools they don't sell to anyone else to make a spifier (albeit bugger and with more security holes) product, and decide to make your 'new idea' part of the operating system bundle.


    So "free and spiffy" beats "expensive and ugly."  Huh.  Someone ought to pass a law against that!

    By "buggier and with more security holes" I assume you are talking about Real Player.

    shooby wrote:

    Youre now broke, disgruntled, with 2 million lines of code you can't give away. And your venture capital thinks youre a total loser.


    Now I wasn't sure if you were talking about yourself here or Rob Glaser.

    Don't worry shooby honey -- even if your VC thinks you suck, we still love you! Wink

  • User profile image
    Karim

    shooby wrote:
    this man Gates and his whole company is evil!!


    Right, so "this man Gates" is SOOOOO evil, he gave $25 million to the World Health Organization to help eradicate polio, a billion dollars to GAVI help children have access to lifesaving vaccines, a billion dollars to help black people in the U.S. afford to go to college, etc. etc. etc.  And "his whole company" has a lot of participants in a matching grants program.

    You're so f--king holy and righteous -- so tell us what the "Shooby Foundation" does to help the poor and oppressed?  I mean, besides rant about how much Vista's going to suck.

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    Shooby = Beer28s "Loud Personality"?

    Orbit86
    Javamaker
    eric_schmidt

    who else am I forgetting?

  • User profile image
    Karim

    shooby wrote:
    Karim wrote:
    shooby wrote:
    this man Gates and his whole company is evil!!


    Right, so "this man Gates" is SOOOOO evil, he gave $25 million to the World Health Organization to help eradicate polio, a billion dollars to GAVI help children have access to lifesaving vaccines, a billion dollars to help black people in the U.S. afford to go to college, etc. etc. etc.  And "his whole company" has a lot of participants in a matching grants program.

    You're so f--king holy and righteous -- so tell us what the "Shooby Foundation" does to help the poor and oppressed?  I mean, besides rant about how much Vista's going to suck.


    Karim -- dude...

    Thats YOUR MONEY he's giving away, taken from you ILLEGALLY due to the software monopoly.


    I've had money taken away from me ILLEGALLY before.  I've also willingly spent money on Microsoft products.  And all this time I thought there was a difference!  Thanks for showing us all the "light" and making us "free" like you.  <rolleyes>

    shooby wrote:

    Second, I don't consider giving a warehouse full of outdated software away charity -- most of the 'charity' Mr Gates condescends to offer is self serving -- like, 100 million for jobs in India -- taking jobs away from Americans who can do the work, but who'd want to make a living at it. 


    So since you brought up India -- are you sure you don't mean the $100 million Gates gave India to fight HIV/AIDS?

    http://www.aegis.com/news/re/2002/RE021108.html

    That's something evil people do all the time, you know, give entire countries a hundred million dollars to fight diseases.

    So what has the Shooby Foundation done to fight AIDS?  Say "no thanks, honey" at a gay bar?

  • User profile image
    Cider

    shooby wrote:
    like, 100 million for jobs in India -- taking jobs away from Americans who can do the work, but who'd want to make a living at it.



    So "free like me?" doesn't include free trade?  Or only refers to white people?  I love how the race card is always played in arguments like this.

    Exactly how are jobs being taken away from Americans?  Why do Americans have a right to these jobs?  Microsoft, as with other global companies, sell their good and services worldwide.  Why shouldn't they hire worldwide?

    This is the classic "them and us" argument.  Beer tried this as well.  You think that because Indians are paid such a low amount comparitive to western prices, they do a poorer job.  Sorry, doesn't work that way - anyone who knows simple economics will tell you that.  They get paid less but it works out to be a good wage in their society.  Unfortunately, due to people with attitudes like yours (closed minded, the utter opposite to "free like me"), too many jobs in India are call centre level which means that that there are people in call centres who are very intelligent, often moreso than myself or you.

    Indeed, if everything was free and open and you were into a scenario where "better software is King", we should beencoruaging MORE offshoring of development jobs...

  • User profile image
    Manip

    If Microsoft place their Anti-Spyware product into Windows they will be breaking anti-trust rules and will be subject to fines and penalties from both the EU and the USA.

    It is one thing for Microsoft to sell a stand alone product (and not illegal) it is another for them to leverage their monopoly in order to sell other products...

  • User profile image
    andokai

    Manip wrote:

    If Microsoft place their Anti-Spyware product into Windows they will be breaking anti-trust rules and will be subject to fines and penalties from both the EU and the USA.

    It is one thing for Microsoft to sell a stand alone product (and not illegal) it is another for them to leverage their monopoly in order to sell other products...



    Where does the sell come into it?

    I imagine the antispyware integration will be something similar to the firewall. It will come with it but it will be possible to change it for the competitor of your choice. That or it will come included with one of the deluxe versions of windows.

    Personally I'm a bit confused by the whole thing. People complain that windows has flaws and then if MS want to add in functionality that reduces some of these flaws then people complain about that too.

    So long as they don't make it irreplacable I see no problem.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    I guess it depends on what the "core" of the MS AntiSpyware functionality means. IT could mean that just some basic spyware behavior prevention/detection stuff will be included as well as an API to let AntiSpyware software integrate into the security center. They could then charge for signature updates with OneCare (or you could use third party software).

    The fact that there is an AntiSpyware item in the Vista security center doesn't mean that it is only for MS's AntiSpyware. Remember that the Antivirus monitoring item just above it already exists in XP sp2 and works with 3rd party AV software.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    andokai wrote:
    Where does the sell come into it?

    I imagine the antispyware integration will be something similar to the firewall. It will come with it but it will be possible to change it for the competitor of your choice. That or it will come included with one of the deluxe versions of windows.


    Why would you replace a product you have you paid money for with a an alternative that might cost money again? Microsoft are selling their product bundled with Windows, which they know consumers will buy regardless. Windows is an illegal monopoly and thus Microsoft has restrictions as to how they can bundle their software with it.

    If this is just a coloured box in security centre, and the user has to buy/download and install their product of choose then that is just fine. Nobody is complaining about that; what people are concerned about is another Media Player / Internet Explorer that destroys the competition by leveraging Windows.

  • User profile image
    bsilby

    Manip wrote:


    Why would you replace a product you have you paid money for with a an alternative that might cost money again? Microsoft are selling their product bundled with Windows, which they know consumers will buy regardless. Windows is an illegal monopoly and thus Microsoft has restrictions as to how they can bundle their software with it.
     


    You know, it doesn't worry me at all. I'd rather have the software bundled with windows than have to go looking for it myself. Besides, as a producer of an operating system, Microsoft have a responsibility to ensure that it is secure and that the user's privacy is maintained. If that means incorporating antispyware, then I'm all for it. Good on them for making windows better.

  • User profile image
    NetRyder

    Microsoft's move to include a basic firewall in XP SP2 didn't lead to any slaps on the wrist from competitors or regulators. I don't see why this should be any different...

    From the looks of the Security Center in 5231, it looks like the anti-spyware component will function just like the firewall in XP SP2 - it's enabled by default, but it can be turned off and precedence can be given to a third-party product should the user choose to do so.

    Here's a screenshot of what I'm talking about:
    http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/vista_ctp2_33.jpg

    Notice the wording - "You've told us you're using antispyware software that you'll monitor yourself. To help protect your computer against spyware, make sure that your antispyware solution is turned on and up to date or turn on Windows Antispyware."

    It's basically giving you a choice to use your preferred third-party solution, or use the antispyware app that's built in, exactly like the firewall works in XP SP2 today. 

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    Beer28 wrote:

    I think linux will help some of these people eventually by making computing affordable for them. Unlike the newer system hardware requirements of other manufacturers, linux has a very low bar for running it as a system.


    EDIT:
    http://www.africalinuxchix.org/" target="_blank">http://www.africalinuxchix.org
    I just read through some african linux sites. Pretty cool that people over there can take a linux distro and make their very own operating system to help their country develop.


    If I remember correctly Ubuntu is actually an "African" Linux Distro...

    Doesn't matter Linux or Windows, the combined cost of a computers hardware is still more than most people in that region make + you need to have electricity in order to use a computer as well. Which you need to pay for and then...

  • User profile image
    limalicas

    Manip wrote:

    If Microsoft place their Anti-Spyware product into Windows they will be breaking anti-trust rules and will be subject to fines and penalties from both the EU and the USA.

    It is one thing for Microsoft to sell a stand alone product (and not illegal) it is another for them to leverage their monopoly in order to sell other products...



    If it were that simple, Microsoft wouldn't be allowed to bundle IE 7 with Vista - but they clearly are. (And wasn't it the browser war that led, eventually, to anti-trust lawsuits?)

    And as eminently better qualified people than me have mentioned in this thread already - the functionality appears to be identical to that of the Security Center in XP. 

    In my own, personal opinion, the Anti-trust ruling against MS is a joke (albeit an expensive joke). Microsoft was ordered to remove IE and WMP from future releases of XP. But hey - why stop there?

    Surely Wordpad is unfair competition for all companies touting word processing software? And while we're at it, let's order Microsoft to remove the picture viewer app, because surely that is unfair competition to all the companies producing basic image viewing software?

    Oh, hang on... simple word processing and photo-viewing software isn't a multimillion dollar industry, now, is it? So no one really cares when there's no money involved... hence the reason I consider the anti-trust ruling a sad, sad situation.

    Microsoft are simply paying the price for being smarter and wilier than the competition. But hey - that's just my opinion Wink

    Fascinating how quickly people want to jump on Microsoft and criticize them...

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    limalicas wrote:
    Manip wrote:

    If Microsoft place their Anti-Spyware product into Windows they will be breaking anti-trust rules and will be subject to fines and penalties from both the EU and the USA.

    It is one thing for Microsoft to sell a stand alone product (and not illegal) it is another for them to leverage their monopoly in order to sell other products...



    If it were that simple, Microsoft wouldn't be allowed to bundle IE 7 with Vista - but they clearly are. (And wasn't it the browser war that led, eventually, to anti-trust lawsuits?)

    And as eminently better qualified people than me have mentioned in this thread already - the functionality appears to be identical to that of the Security Center in XP. 

    In my own, personal opinion, the Anti-trust ruling against MS is a joke (albeit an expensive joke). Microsoft was ordered to remove IE and WMP from future releases of XP. But hey - why stop there?

    Surely Wordpad is unfair competition for all companies touting word processing software? And while we're at it, let's order Microsoft to remove the picture viewer app, because surely that is unfair competition to all the companies producing basic image viewing software?

    Oh, hang on... simple word processing and photo-viewing software isn't a multimillion dollar industry, now, is it? So no one really cares when there's no money involved... hence the reason I consider the anti-trust ruling a sad, sad situation.

    Microsoft are simply paying the price for being smarter and wilier than the competition. But hey - that's just my opinion

    Fascinating how quickly people want to jump on Microsoft and criticize them...


    I concur.. What always gets me is the EU's complaint over Microsoft "bundling" WMP. The rationale: If people have WMP on their PCs, they'll never use anything different (or far less likely). My counter-argument: Look at the success of iTunes in the US. Apple, who barely had any programs for the PC (Quicktime not withstanding), came from behind, and is now a leader. Despite the fact WMP is included with Windows.

    Apple led the way: do something innovative and original, market it, give people something they didn't  have before (ITMS) and people will jump to your product.

    The EU needs to quit penalizing companies who are successful and encourage other companies to "think outside the box". It helps the littler companies and promotes competition.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    MisterDonut

    i also think its a myth that integration into the OS led to IE's marketshare and WMP's marketshare.

    people kept on downloading Netscape until IE as a browser was better, and Netscape lost popularity. it was the same with RealPlayer vs. WMP.

    of course now that Microsoft's products are on top, being integrated prevents people from seeking out alternatives, so it becomes harder.

    but i think people forget what actually happened in the 90s, and how Netscape and Real were doing very well until Microsoft made better products, all the while when Micrsoft's products were integrated.



  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    brian.shapiro wrote:
    but i think people forget what actually happened in the 90s, and how Netscape and Real were doing very well until Microsoft made better products, all the while when Micrsoft's products were integrated.

    So, what you're saying is, MS can integrate stuff into Windows as long as it's crap? Tongue Out

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