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Did VS2005 Ship Too Early?

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  • User profile image
    irascian

    It's still early days for me with VS2005. Initial impressions are pretty favourable although Lord it's slow even on a pretty powerful laptop - using Help is just a major pain in the backside.

    However the blogs have been reporting some pretty serious problems and now Mini-Microsoft has had a bit of a rant with links to most of the blog entries here

    I can't agree with the "anonymous" comment dissing him/her for reporting the problems (they're public on blogs anyway) but can't help feeling the posting is way too negative (but maybe I'm just being naive and will feel differently after launching VS2005-developed projects).

    One comment I CAN agree with is how hopeless the service pack policy (or lack of!) is with regard to fixing some pretty major bugs. There's one example of a tab control property "visible" just not doing anything. Resolution? It won't be fixed to "maintain compatibility with the previous version of .Net". How lame is that?!!

    What are everyone else's impressions (or is it really too early to tell?)

  • User profile image
    leighsword

    Don't worry, all things on the schedule, VS2005, VS2006(service pack), VS2008, VS2009(service pack).......

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    Is the help still getting unresponsive after a few clicks? I had that problem during past builds up until Beta 2, but it was always closed Not Reproducable.

  • User profile image
    irascian

    It is here. Typically you click, nothing happens, the hard disk suddenly thrashes like mad and then eventually the help dialogue starts responding.

    Actually I'm not sure it's only Help - I'll have a better idea when I've done a lot more work in the IDE. At the moment I'm just playing with it or working through book examples trying to get familiar with the changes (anybody know how to run a SQL Server script from within the IDE or is this not possible?)

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    Nah, it's even worse with beta 2, you might be able to successfully click and browse two items in the index, but after that, I'm just able to witness a spinning IE icon and a stuck progress bar in the status bar, no amount of time will make it react.

    And I'm not going to install the final version yet, because I need the WinFX framework to continue working on my pet projects.

  • User profile image
    Shark_M

    its working fine here, no major complaints

    perhaps you need to reinstall VS2005,

    the only thing is that its a bit slow when your building a really huge project.... but other than that its very responsive ..... i am happy with it

    maybe they will make it even better with service packs


    my machine is a P4 1.7 Ghz, and 512 RAM

    well it does what i need it to do Big Smile , but i hear AMD 64 x2 are very fast, have you tried it on AMD processors?, am getting one on boxing day:)

  • User profile image
    Manip

    I think I'll stick with VS2005 Beta 2 until it expires... Then dump a retail version on assuming they have fixed some of the nastier bugs by then..

  • User profile image
    Detroit Muscle

    It doesn't matter, nobody will use VS2005 for professional projects the first year it's released anyway. VS2005 is only being used by hobbiests and for evaluation purposes right now. In another year or so, MS will release patches for all the bugs and then people will start using it for serious work.

  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    Detroit Muscle wrote:
    It doesn't matter, nobody will use VS2005 for professional projects the first year it's released anyway. VS2005 is only being used by hobbiests and for evaluation purposes right now. In another year or so, MS will release patches for all the bugs and then people will start using it for serious work.


    I know of three different projects - all "serious, professional" projects, being developed on .NET 2.0. All three had a lot of urging by Microsoft to be early adopters, using technologies like VSTOv2 which aren't available for v1.1. All three started developing with Beta1, moved to Beta2 and will move to RTM soon. All three are conflicted - on one hand, they wanted - NEEDED - 2005 to be released so their project schedules won't get all out of whack. On the other hand, they've been putting up with the bugs and beta-level stability hoping that the RTM will solve all their problems. So now the RTM is out and they can release, but they're still having IDE bugs and no SP in sight. Bummer.

  • User profile image
    John Galt

    As bad as Vs.net is (i.e. you can't use URL Rewritting in ASP.NET because of 3 separate bugs in it, I have managed to crash it about 20 times in the span of two hours the other day, all with different errors) SQL Server 2005 is even worse.

    Management Studio is just so bad that it makes Enterprise Manager look good. To one of my staff that saw me struggling with Management Studio "Well, looks like I won't be downgrading to SQL Server 2005 any time soon!"  You can't use Query builder without about 10 steps, it doesn't allow execution (even though the right click menu item is there) directly, so you have to click ok, execute it on the stupid text screen and then edit it again in the design mode by selecting all fo the text, right clicking on it and opening the designer again, the thing comes up in the most anoying fashion in the first place and doesn't have a list of your registered servers displayed by default.

    I.e. the Query Analyser team wrote this thing and the Enterprise Manager team got left out in the cold. End result, is that we have the same mantality that produced the steaming pile that is Query Analyser in the Management Studio tool and thus it's almost completely unusuable because of the increased clicks (on average I have to click about 7x more than I did with Enterprise Manager to get anything done).

    This stuff is buggy, and it clearly shows that they didn't bother to listen to customers much. (unless of course it got a ton of votes on the feedback system like C# Edit and Continue which the implimentation is horrible (i.e. try editing a dll that a asp.net 2.0 web site depends on. You can't edit it while it's running, no way not how, even if you would agree to restarting it to see the changes. You have to stop the damn site, edit it and then start it again.) 

    And then there is the Winforms editor which is actually SLOWER than Vs.net 2003 which is a major accomplishment considering how horribly slow it is... Man I wish I had VB 6 back sometimes... forms showed up instantly and the thing was mostly stable (especially after the 6 service packs which we don't get anymore, we have to jump through hoops to get hotfixes because they won't even publish them publically)

    All and all, this is definately a downgrade and not something that we'll be moving to any time soon. In fact, SQL Server has basically made it so that if we move off of SQL Server 2000 or they push us off because of lack of support, we'll be moving to MySQL 5.

  • User profile image
    wacko

    I can't say I have run into very many issues in my uses of it. Nteam has been deving on its since B2 and other then VSTF its not been that bad at all. Aside from the help being slow I have had only one crash.  all though I will say one thing that really does kinda get at me is code snippets in vb.net they are way broken.

    Overall it has come along way since some of the first version we saw and to be all honest this product has really gone the paces when it came to user feedback. So in the end I think its worth an upgrade as I have not come across anything that prevents me from getting the work done I need to.

  • User profile image
    dotnetjunkie

    Detroit Muscle wrote:
    It doesn't matter, nobody will use VS2005 for professional projects the first year it's released anyway. VS2005 is only being used by hobbiests and for evaluation purposes right now. In another year or so, MS will release patches for all the bugs and then people will start using it for serious work.

    Give me a break!
    This is completely ridiculous.

    Our company already uses it heavily for professional projects, and I know of several partners doing so as well.

    Not to speak of the hundreds of production ASP.NET 2.0 websites that our hosting partner has deployed!

  • User profile image
    BenZilla

    I'll only be using C++ express edition so I won't be stressing the system as much as you guys Cool

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    My friend just contacted me to tell me that if he does

     using System.Web ;

    then VS has decided to just remove the ;, quite why a space implies that the ; is unnecessary I don't know. Only happens on 'using' ..

    Are we likely to get any answers on how Microsoft intends to fix this mess? I'm going to the Launch even in Birmingham on Tuesday and you can bet I'll be asking some awkward questions unless there is some sort of official recognition that the product is flawed for a large number of people.

  • User profile image
    Darek​Meridian

    I have been playing with the MSDN Pro on my dev laptop as well as my everyday desktop. The clean install on the laptop definately is working a lot better than the desktop that had beta's and WinFx Framework.. So I suggest a clean machine install. On the desktop the IDE does work a little hoaky with random processor grabs and I tested a few bugs that I saw on different blogs around and did have the problems.  Not to mention on the desktop I got some install warnings involving not having permissions to write to some registry entries.

    So clean installs are definately recommended  Someone suggested that no one is really using VS2005 well I can say our company is deploying it over the weekend (were closed friday), and I know of at least one mid management department at NYSE that is already building a project that they started with beta 2.. so I think that statement is not exactly accurate.



  • User profile image
    Born2Run

    I find it very, very strange that big companies start developing business important applications using a beta product from Microsoft. You would think they would learn from the VS 2002 / VS 2003 fiasko Perplexed

    This version is going to have a lot of bugs, I am sure. We will see version 2.1 of .NET in the next year, propably before Vista launches.

    But I have some upcoming freelance projects which I will develop in 2.0. But then I am not a huge company depending on business applications to work 100% perfectly 100% of the time.

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    Installed it a week or so ago, DAAAAAAAM....NNNN, works like a charm.

    - Steve

  • User profile image
    Tommy Lee

    Born2Run wrote:
    I find it very, very strange that big companies start developing business important applications using a beta product from Microsoft. You would think they would learn from the VS 2002 / VS 2003 fiasko



    As an evangelist who works with early adopters, I can give some insight.  One of the reasons is that they want an IDE for the newer .NET Framework.  Typically this is the case for ASP.NET.  They find the features compelling or makes their team more productive and VS2005 is the best tool to take advantage of developing for it. The second reason is "the technology aggressor". Who are these folks?  These are the folks that during our recent tech downturn, instead of hibernating and laying off IT staff, they were using IT and Dev as an asset and taking advantage of new technology to help them build applications much faster.  Then of course you have folks who love new technology and are always on the early adopter track.

    Tomorrow at the launch, you will hear about the customers who are early adopters (they are a fraction of the adopters) of the .NET Framework 2.0 and VS2005.  You will also be able to check out the apps they built at www.microsoft.com/casestudies.

    Hope this gives some insight.

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