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One of the million reasons why Windows sucks (religious)

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  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    You won't get something that'll do Word conversions commandline, as that would require tapping into the core Word functionality. The Word document format is rather complex (Chris Prately covered this recently if you want detailed info). It's not like WordPerfect's tag system at all. It's a robust, (for lack of a better word) oject oriented way of assigning attributes to runs of text.

    As such, doing the conversion to HTML would be messy and inconsistent. To the point where Chris says "I wouldn't want to try it".

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    I'm convinced that everytime I hear the word 'robust' it means "slow and convoluted".

    If they made it easy to convert documents they'de lose all their business, because everyone would switch (to RTF, PDF, or HTML). Ever notice the trick question when you try to save in a 'non Microsoft' format?

    "Are you sure?"

    -Click Yes to return and save as the most recent type
    -Click no to continue and save in old format




    you see, by saying you're sure that you want to save the file, you're switching to a MS format.


    That's why Unix is better - because Unix doesn't have to play games.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    OpenOffice does the same thing.
    This is not a Unix issue.

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    OpenOffice is even worse. You get an error when saving AND when closing, both of which are like "if you do this you want have our features!!!"

    Before you pass judgement on how Word does it's format, at least read Chris Pratley's blog entry on the subject. If you choose not to agree that's one thing, but there's no reason to get all "here's why Unix rocks". It has nothing to do Windows or Microsoft, and it's not bad.

    As far as robusdity (hehe), lots of things are robust, including PHP, Oracle, etc. Has nothing to do with 'bloat' (I loathe that word).

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    robustidy hehehe... I'm gonna have to start using that.

    I'm referring to the trick question. Warnings are fine. If they do trick questions in OpenOffice I would be against that too.


    I know what 'robust' means. But whenever someone in sales says it my skin crawls.

    Robust is an ambiguous term. They may as well be saying "_________ has a new $great architecture".

    "Robust how?"
    "Robust with respect to what?"
    "Compared to what?"

    You see what I mean?

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Of course, but it's not like I'm a sales guy Smiley I say it because that's how I see it.

  • User profile image
    warren

    Your "one of the million" reasons has been shot down:  Services for Unix.

    So, you're presently at zero items.  Would you like to list the other 999,999 reasons why Windows sucks, so that we can demonstrate to you that you don't actually know enough about Windows to be in a position to criticise it?

    Go on, then...

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    DLL hell is a very good reason, and so is extra API's.

    Those are two very good reasons.


    Oh yeah, its shell sucks too...
    (Please see encompassing rant here: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=5823#5823)

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    BTW, the title of this thread is "One of the million reasons why Windows sucks (religious)"


    If you don't like it, don't read it - that's what titles are for.

    Sure there are more comfortable forms of user feedback, but channel9 is about developers, and I think if HTML forms brought Microsoft closer to the developers they would use them instead of a message board.

    If you disagree with any of my points, please show me how I'm wrong... I promise I won't call you a troll.

  • User profile image
    Cider

    Microsoft Installer can pretty much get rid of DLL Hell by the use of counting and the like.

    But hey, I can't be bothered to go deeper into all this, its not going to stop you in this thread.  You're a slashdot fan, FUD is the name of the game when it comes to Windows.

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    I would like to hear more of what you have to say. I didn't know that the Windows installer could help to prevent that.

    That's good news to me.

  • User profile image
    Cider

    Sorry if my original post was a bit attacking, it was more aimed at Slashdot than yourself.

    Basically, Microsoft Installer is effectively a database and one of the fields for files is versioning.  This combined with other areas such as counting means that certified-level MSI files remove themselves pretty much from DLL Hell.  When I say "certified", this means tested against the Internal Consistency Evaluators (ICEs) - a number of pretty straight forward rules for MSIs.  There are numerous tools that check ICEs, especially the one included with the Windows Installer SDK, Orca.  I suggest downloading that if you are curious about what is going on inside an MSI.

    From what I see, pretty much all Visual Studio applications that I have made produce certified level MSIs as standard out of the tin.  Although, most of what I do is with .Net, and that of course uses the Framework, moving totally away from the DLL hell of old!

    I think its good that Microsoft have finally made a commitment to using Microsoft Installer from now on (currently its version 2.0, 3.0 is a major step forward and included with SP2, and Longhorn is destined to get 4.0) although even some  Microsoft teams don't exactly produce great MSIs - Messenger for instance was broken to the point you could install it manually but not by Active Directory.

    As well, if you are interested, check out the WiX (Windows Installer XML) Project on sourceforge, Microsoft's first Open Source project!

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    That's pretty sweet. I didn't know how much they did in the way of preventing DLL hell, but that sounds like the right way to go about it.

    Rock on. I hope everyone contributes.

    If Microsoft keeps on track... wow... I could see a lot of good come out of it.

  • User profile image
    Jackco

    many people who support microsoft and many of them are rude people.
    hay bill gates are u paying big $$ to get a THUG (like u) to beat me up.

    Linux won't be able to boot up on a TCG PC. now that is a monopoly.
    You can say it not true but then I don't belive ya.

  • User profile image
    IceFreak2000

    Jackco wrote:
    many people who support microsoft and many of them are rude people.
    hay bill gates are u paying big $$ to get a THUG (like u) to beat me up.

    Linux won't be able to boot up on a TCG PC. now that is a monopoly.
    You can say it not true but then I don't belive ya.


    Ahhh, don't you just love the power of a well reasoned argument? Wink

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    The phrase "God protects stupid people and small children" comes to mind Smiley

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    I never really saw Bill Gates as a thug. Now Tony... Tony, he's a thug Wink

  • User profile image
    eagle

    The Unix operating system and the C programming language come from New Jersey,
     http://www.bell-labs.com/about/history/changedworld.html

    yet I don't meet any pilgrims on their way to Murray Hill.


    What will happen to this "debate"  when Microsoft’s Longhorn vision is realized?

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